From a negotiations standpoint, a contract with incentives can be structured for a player who is constantly injured. Brown's contract probably needs more of that incentive than perhaps others.
I fully understand Brown wanting his deal redone now. I think what we all dislike is that it's being done in the press, because that can split up a team.
I fully understand Brown wanting his deal redone now. I think what we all dislike is that it's being done in the press, because that can split up a team.
if he could move the pile on 3rd and one he would have never seen a "final" year in his contract.
Hoffa said:
Hey, that's a crazy idea! Actually paying someone their current market value instead of their potential market value from 12 months ago. Hmmm. That just might work!
The Don said:
Hahaha...13 years ago when I was 3 I was playing with Lincoln Logs and Ninja Turtles.....
If he keeps on ruffin'up kids on the playground your going to have to change his name to Walker so he can replace Blazingarrows avatar
As I've said repeatedly, Brown's only problem is staying healthy. Our offensive line is to blame for short yardage situations, considering NONE of our running backs could consistently convert short yardage situations.
I find it funny that people are longing for a runningback who couldn't even break 3.5 avg the last 3 years he was here, and only reached the 1000 yard mark because he got 100 more carries than Brown every year.
I find it funny that people are longing for a runningback who couldn't even break 3.5 avg the last 3 years he was here, and only reached the 1000 yard mark because he got 100 more carries than Brown every year.
So because a drug addict Henry and a handful of guys who should be applying to hamburger university can't convert 3rd and short that means CB would be good at 3rd and short if the line was better??? I find if funny that some people go out of their way to make excuses for quitters like CB, PS and DN - I toss CB onto that pile based on his apparent refusal to play hard till he gets an extension, that is he has stated he can't risk injury that could jeprodize his career, despite being under contract to do just that.
at least EG kept drives alive by GETTING THE NECESSARY YARDAGE for a first down. CB is as likley to rip 20 as loose 3, but he is definatly unlikley to break a tackle to get the first down, he has proven this for years now.
Oh I would love a RB that got 3.5 yards every carry. Its a TD every possession.
EG was effective his entire time in Tennessee, unfourtunatly he lacked explosive plays the last year or so. Despite than he was more effective at 3.5 ypc that CB has been with his amazing 4.3 ypc
at least EG kept drives alive by GETTING THE NECESSARY YARDAGE for a first down. CB is as likley to rip 20 as loose 3, but he is definatly unlikley to break a tackle to get the first down, he has proven this for years now.
Oh I would love a RB that got 3.5 yards every carry. Its a TD every possession.
EG was effective his entire time in Tennessee, unfourtunatly he lacked explosive plays the last year or so. Despite than he was more effective at 3.5 ypc that CB has been with his amazing 4.3 ypc
SEC 330 BIPOLAR said:
Eddie had like one 100 yard game in three years heading into 2004.
Brown cracked the 100 yard mark that year 6 times and had another game with 91 yards despite the fact he missed time with injuries. Thats 6 games over 100 in 11 games played (almost 7 with the 91 yarder).
The main reason we didn't have a 100 yard game last year was our OL was not good and the RBs didn't get the carries. It is easy to crack 100 yards if you get 30+ carries a game. Against Cincy in 2004 when Brown did get 32 carries he had 147 yards on the day. He also ran for over 100 yards against the Colts twice, one against the Jags once (he didn't play the second game).
Heck LaDainian Tomlinson only has a 4.3 life time YPC average. When you gat 339 carries a season it is easy to put up 100 yard games and 1300-1400 yards. Nobody is saying Brown should get Tomlinson money either.
Like I have said before, Brown didn't go from a 4.9 YPC guy who had 6 100 yard games to a 3.8 YPC with no 100 yard games because he had a drop in his ability. The OL was the problem.
GoT said:
Well, a former pro bowler and an NFLE standout, you'd think they could be at least a little productive. Just look at the kind of RB's they use in Denver.
GoT said:
Do you have any stats on that? I'd almost wager that Wycheck, Mason and McNair was equally important in getting the yardage for first, especially in critical 3rd down situations.
GoT said:
Don't kid yourself. EG didn't get 3.5 every carry. Considering even EG had at least a few +5 runs every year, there's bound to have been a good deal of 0-2 yard runs (I will give you that EG rarely lost yardage, though).
GoT said:
A runningback is always limited by the skill of his offensive line. Is EG a better back than Brown, yes. Did EG play for a better Titans team, and more importantly behind a better offensive line, hell yes.
GoT said:
Keep in mind that Brown came on the scene right at the time the team was going downhill because of the CAP. Our defense has been terrible the last couple of years and the OL was terrible last year. Those things are what hurt the team and the running game more than losing Eddie. Believe me if Eddie were back we would have a bunch of people whining about how ineffective he is. Heck last year I doubt even the 2002 version of Eddie could break 3.0 YPC.
More than once Fisher commented on Brown bouncing to the outside instead of digging in for the short yardage. Though I do put some of that on the OL, Brown isn't (wasn't) good at getting you a couple of yards when the defense stacked it in to stop it.Vigsted said:
Brown isn't anything close to Eddie in his prime.
We all know you are Chris Brown's standard bearer. Nothing personal Soxcat, I like your take on some things but Brown is not good enough.Soxcat said:
Soxcat said:
I don't think it was all on the OL. Our average pass was only getting running yards so it was easy for opposing D's to stack the line & shut down our running game.
The offense repeatedly let the D down & kept them on the field. By the 3rd quarter the D had tanked & we were then way behind on points. No team is going to run the ball well under those circumstances. A more productive passing game will make us less predictable this year give us a more balanced offence. When that happens the OL will look ten times better than they did last season.
Even tho EG lacked 100yard games his last 3 yrs he could still get the hard yards when we needed him too. Chris Brown has been a lightweight when we've needed him & that's in his prime.
Puck said:
If that's your only criteria for a runningback why don't we just sign Eddie again, I hear he's available....
CB ought to fire this guy. Listening to him could kill his career. Brown has yet to prove anything but "potential" yet. He knows that. A "feature" back must prove his worth by staying healthy while procuding. This is his chance to do so. We are giving him that chance. None can blame the Titans for the "show me first" attitude. Hey Chris, dump this guy and let him go help Drew with TO.
I really don't care if by definition Brown is a "feature" back or not. The main point should be are his salary demands excessive based on his production.
For example the CAP values in 2005 for James, Tomlinson, Alexander and Rudy Johnson were 9,8,6.3 and 6.2 mil. Ahman Green, Lewis, Martin and Barber were in the 5+ mil range. Holmes and Faulk were in the 4+ range and when you get to the 3 mil + area you get names like Warrick Dunn, Kevin Barlow, Fred Taylor and (belive it or not) Chester Taylor. Those are 2005 numbers so with the new CAP we will see higher numbers as guys sign new contracts.
With that said I don't think anybody is arguing Brown should be in the Alexander, Tomlinson category. It does seem reasonable that Brown could fit into the 3 mil area. I don't think Brown is looking for money like Eddie made so comparisons to Eddie are not really justified from a financial standpoint.
Now if Brown wants to be paid like a Kiki Barber I'm all for letting him play out his contract and then re-evaluating but if he is willing to sign for closer to what he is worth I'm all for it. It isn't like we have Shawn Alexander waiting to take over his spot unless White starts to show more than he has so far.
For example the CAP values in 2005 for James, Tomlinson, Alexander and Rudy Johnson were 9,8,6.3 and 6.2 mil. Ahman Green, Lewis, Martin and Barber were in the 5+ mil range. Holmes and Faulk were in the 4+ range and when you get to the 3 mil + area you get names like Warrick Dunn, Kevin Barlow, Fred Taylor and (belive it or not) Chester Taylor. Those are 2005 numbers so with the new CAP we will see higher numbers as guys sign new contracts.
With that said I don't think anybody is arguing Brown should be in the Alexander, Tomlinson category. It does seem reasonable that Brown could fit into the 3 mil area. I don't think Brown is looking for money like Eddie made so comparisons to Eddie are not really justified from a financial standpoint.
Now if Brown wants to be paid like a Kiki Barber I'm all for letting him play out his contract and then re-evaluating but if he is willing to sign for closer to what he is worth I'm all for it. It isn't like we have Shawn Alexander waiting to take over his spot unless White starts to show more than he has so far.
If it was my team & my money I'd want to see what he can do this year before I'd commit big money to him long term. if he gets hurt & misses games again that would have to factor in to his future worth even if I still wanted him.
I'd say he's worth Soxcat's $3mil a year now if say 30-40% of the is performance related. That's still a hike in his pay but if he gets hurt again it would lower his Cap hit.
I don't think his greedy agent would buy that kind of deal tho.
I'd say he's worth Soxcat's $3mil a year now if say 30-40% of the is performance related. That's still a hike in his pay but if he gets hurt again it would lower his Cap hit.
I don't think his greedy agent would buy that kind of deal tho.
no doubt.Puck said:
ps-Soxcat, good post and your arguments are sound it's just that most fans, I would think, want a dominate feature back. Chris Brown is just not a first class running back in this league. That doesn't mean Henry or White is either... sure, the O-line has been lacking... I hope they will be better...
This Brown stuff is like my support for Woolfolk... it's wishful thinking. I still hope Woolfolk defies the odds and comes up big but Woolfolk doesn't front like he's freakin E. James... (like Brown seems too) ... If Brown runs with authority and stays healthy I'll admit that I'm wrong.
Let me put it this way..
I have more faith in Woolfolk.
Faith in Woolfolk than Brown?
Brown is a starter and has run for 1000+ yards in the NFL.
Woolfolk has not come close to achieving what Brown has so far.
Again, I'm not saying or is anyone else that Brown is an elite back at this point. Talking like he Brown is a marginal player is wrong as well. If we don't want him there are a number of teams that will. Also, if we are waiting around to get the next Eddie George of Tomlinson we might be waiting a while. Brown's demand of being paid as well as an average starting back in the NFL is reasonable IMO where ever he plays.
Consider this. Backs that are taken very early in the draft earn 3+ mil right out of the gate before they have proven anything. Would everyone rather take that chance, paying a guy big bucks before we know if they are good or reliable? 1st round draft picks get what Brown is asking from day one and you used a high draft pick as well.
Brown is a starter and has run for 1000+ yards in the NFL.
Woolfolk has not come close to achieving what Brown has so far.
Again, I'm not saying or is anyone else that Brown is an elite back at this point. Talking like he Brown is a marginal player is wrong as well. If we don't want him there are a number of teams that will. Also, if we are waiting around to get the next Eddie George of Tomlinson we might be waiting a while. Brown's demand of being paid as well as an average starting back in the NFL is reasonable IMO where ever he plays.
Consider this. Backs that are taken very early in the draft earn 3+ mil right out of the gate before they have proven anything. Would everyone rather take that chance, paying a guy big bucks before we know if they are good or reliable? 1st round draft picks get what Brown is asking from day one and you used a high draft pick as well.
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