Alot of the discussion about young QBs centers on one main premise.
Does playing a young QB cause or enhance his failure if the going is rough at the start assuming they start too early? Traditionally the thinking is that a perfectly good QB can get ruined by being thrown to the wolves too early.
IMO this is non-sense and with very few exceptions does the QBs "lack of confidence" cause him to be a bust. Ryan Leaf was a bust no matter how he was going to be handled. Manning and Marino would have been just as successfull if they sat a year or two but would have lost a year or two on their careers needlessly sitting. Sitting a young QB is all about if they are ready based on their grasp of the offensive scheme and adjustment to the speed of the game. Basically getting on the field is part of the maturation process and the longer the team waits to put the player out there the longer it is going to be for that player to reach their full potential. Akili Smith wasn't a bust because he got thrown to the wolves too early. He was a bust, and still is because he is a bust. Smith could have sta on the sidelines until he was 30+ years old and still sucked. Either the QB has it or they don't.
McNair was only a 70 rated QB after sitting for the most part of 2 years. Sitting might of helped him some but I would contend until he saw live action, was involved in being part of the game plan each week and such and making adjustments along the way Mac would have never matured as a QB. If Young sees the field this year we might not see a finished product but in no way to I think his is so fragile emotionally that mistakes made will ruin his career. On the contrary he will work harder to overcome those mistakes and when he gets comfortable with the speed of the game he will explode.
Does playing a young QB cause or enhance his failure if the going is rough at the start assuming they start too early? Traditionally the thinking is that a perfectly good QB can get ruined by being thrown to the wolves too early.
IMO this is non-sense and with very few exceptions does the QBs "lack of confidence" cause him to be a bust. Ryan Leaf was a bust no matter how he was going to be handled. Manning and Marino would have been just as successfull if they sat a year or two but would have lost a year or two on their careers needlessly sitting. Sitting a young QB is all about if they are ready based on their grasp of the offensive scheme and adjustment to the speed of the game. Basically getting on the field is part of the maturation process and the longer the team waits to put the player out there the longer it is going to be for that player to reach their full potential. Akili Smith wasn't a bust because he got thrown to the wolves too early. He was a bust, and still is because he is a bust. Smith could have sta on the sidelines until he was 30+ years old and still sucked. Either the QB has it or they don't.
McNair was only a 70 rated QB after sitting for the most part of 2 years. Sitting might of helped him some but I would contend until he saw live action, was involved in being part of the game plan each week and such and making adjustments along the way Mac would have never matured as a QB. If Young sees the field this year we might not see a finished product but in no way to I think his is so fragile emotionally that mistakes made will ruin his career. On the contrary he will work harder to overcome those mistakes and when he gets comfortable with the speed of the game he will explode.
I have to agree with Soxcat
I don't think it makes much deference on wether a QB starts the first year or not. Don't get ne wrong, if he's not ready he shouldn't play. By not ready I mean emotionally, physically, and playbook savvy. With all the tricks QB's can use to remember plays like arm bands and in ear speakers I think that the playbook would be an easier problem to over come. If Volek starts losing games Young will get thrown in the fire if nothing else other than to give the coaching staff some breathing room for the season. At least if they're losing with a rookie QB they still have excuses. Volek will get his chance and my prediction is that it'll be short lived.
I don't think it makes much deference on wether a QB starts the first year or not. Don't get ne wrong, if he's not ready he shouldn't play. By not ready I mean emotionally, physically, and playbook savvy. With all the tricks QB's can use to remember plays like arm bands and in ear speakers I think that the playbook would be an easier problem to over come. If Volek starts losing games Young will get thrown in the fire if nothing else other than to give the coaching staff some breathing room for the season. At least if they're losing with a rookie QB they still have excuses. Volek will get his chance and my prediction is that it'll be short lived.
There is absolutely no way anyone can know for sure whether or not early failure had a negative impact on a QB developing. There are too many intangibles involved.Soxcat said:
But if you take the time to look back at history, you have a high bust rate for QBs entering the league. And the majority of them were thrown to the wolves their rookie season.
There is no question these guys come in under tremendous pressure to produce immediately. As in any career, some deal with it better than others. I don't think it is a stretch to think there is a risk in playing a QB too soon and damaging his confidence.
And you know this how?
If this was true, then every QB ever drafted in the first round would be the #1 when the season started.
Just your opinion. I'm sure there were other issues at play here but you can't make me believe failure doesn't have an impact on the development of a QB. There are just too many players deemed franchise QBs to bust and the majority have one thing in common -- they were put in the game before they were ready.
And he's the only talented QB to come in the game and have the desire to succeed? Though some players do much better handling the pressure, you don't know how Young will react until he is in that situation and has his confidence shaken.
So you are for starting Young in the season opener?
I also don't think starting too early crushes a rookie QB enough to destroy his career (though perhaps it can stunt him temporarily). Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman, John Elway, and Phil Simms all had poor rookie seasons (some moreso than others). They turned out pretty good.
I see no reason to expect that guys like Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, or Rick Mirer would have been anything other than busts had they sat out their rookie seasons.
I'm not saying that Young is necessarily ready to start now or that I'd want them to throw him out before he is. But I don't think doing so will kill his career.
I see no reason to expect that guys like Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, or Rick Mirer would have been anything other than busts had they sat out their rookie seasons.
I'm not saying that Young is necessarily ready to start now or that I'd want them to throw him out before he is. But I don't think doing so will kill his career.
No, it doesn't guarantee anything either way. But I certainly think history tells us it can do more damage than good.Starkiller said:
Here's an article about Carson Palmer and past problems the Bengals had with QB busts.
http://archive.sportingnews.com/nfl/articles/20030504/471993.html
It just tells me that Klingler and Akili Smith were busts. There isn't any reason to think that they would have been good simply because they sat for a year before starting.
There is no way to know what would have happened if these guys would have sat the bench a season. Apparently, the Bengals thought keeping Palmer on the bench a season was a better option.Starkiller said:
All I know is that there isn't any evidence that keeping a rookie QB off the field will make him into a better QB than he would be throwing him in early.
On the other hand, we have seen QBs who start as rookies, both successfully (Dan Marino) and badly (most everyone else), who turn out to be Pro Bowl quarterbacks.
It's not really something that can be proven, and perhaps each QB would react differently. But at least we know without any doubt that some QBs are good even if they were throw into the fire immediately.
On the other hand, we have seen QBs who start as rookies, both successfully (Dan Marino) and badly (most everyone else), who turn out to be Pro Bowl quarterbacks.
It's not really something that can be proven, and perhaps each QB would react differently. But at least we know without any doubt that some QBs are good even if they were throw into the fire immediately.
Hard evidence? No. But if you go back 15 years and look at those QBs who busted, almost all of them started early their rookie season. Is this just coincidence?Starkiller said:
I ran the numbers back before the draft. I'll attempt the find the thread.
And Young might as well. So why does Fisher/Reese and other coaches not give their future franchise QBs valuable experience their rookies seasons by throwing them in by day one? I think it goes beyond the rookies not knowing the playbook.
Exactly. You don't know until it happens. Are we willing to risk it?
I can remember that some said Young would not be considered a NFL QB and would be drafted as a WR. Then it was talk about him sitting for TWO seasons to learn the game. Then it was sitting him for one. Now, as the #2, he has to be ready to step in and play immediately.
I want Young to be focusing on learning the game, not having to play it his rookie season. Though some QBs have handled both, history tells us many can't. Why risk it?
Once TC and preseason are threw with, then i'll speak on this topic of discussion.....
That article sounds more like Schefter's opinion than he has any inside info that the Titans are seriously talking to Collins...
Here's that link to the QB list from a while back:
http://www.gotitans.com/goForum/showpost.php?p=145388&postcount=54
Now I do believe many busts were reaches to begin with and/or landed with some horrible teams with poor coaching. I'm sure it all plays into it.
http://www.gotitans.com/goForum/showpost.php?p=145388&postcount=54
Now I do believe many busts were reaches to begin with and/or landed with some horrible teams with poor coaching. I'm sure it all plays into it.
But those guys could just as easily gone bust had they been benched as rookies. 1st round QBs are often busts, but I don't think it's because they get on the field too early. It's because they aren't good enough QBs...TitanJeff said:
Honestly, do you think that if a QB isn't mentally strong enough to take the pressure of playing as a rooke and it cripples him for the rest of his career, he's ever going to be mentally strong enough to play QB well in the NFL?
I think confidence is possibly one of the most important parts of being an NFL QB. So, yeah, if a QB doesn't have it, he can't believe in himself and it impacts his game to the point of making him worthless.Starkiller said:
Like you said, some can deal with it, others can't.
Often times, these bust come from top college programs. You have to know they've faced plenty of pressure at different levels of their career. Maybe nothing like what they have at the NFL level but quite a bit for a 20-year old. So I think every QB who enters the league has dealt with pressure to some degree.
The one thing they haven't faced is failure and rebuilding lost confidence.
These QBs come into the league having dealt with pressures of college football, but none of them have never faced an NFL-caliber defense. That's the whole trick, finding a QB who can make that leap forward. Many can't. Some can't physically. Some can't mentally. Which one is which is generally an educated guess.
But whether on not they play as a rookie shouldn't crush their chances of success in the future.
But whether on not they play as a rookie shouldn't crush their chances of success in the future.
Yet they were able to deal with the pressures of high school football and face a college-level defense.Starkiller said:
Can we agree the difference is that the pro game is that it is more mental and a player cannot simply rely on the athletic ability that maybe got him by in high school and college?
If we agree to that, then all mental aspects of the game have to be taken into consideration -- especially confidence. I think it is magnified as much as the other mental aspects of the game.
You're right, it shouldn't. Yet I think it does. Apparently, so do a number of coaches and GMs who resist the temptation of playing a rookie.
Fisher was asked last year what he'd do with Alex Smith. In a situation where the Niners had nothing to lose by playing Smith, Fisher said he'd sit him and let him develop. Why?
If we planned on signing Collins wouldn't we have done so by now? We don't exactly gain anything by waiting
That's 3 completely different levels of competition. Just because they can jump from HS to the NCAA successfully doesn't mean they are good enough to also make the jump to the NFL. The same holds true of every pro sport.TitanJeff said:
Absolutely not. It's not all mental, though certainly that's a big part of it. A number of QBs simply don't have a good enough arm to succeed in the NFL where they did in college (see Danny Wuerffel). Many were excellent college QBs in large part because of the system they played in and/or the talent surrounding him.
Look at the Jeff Tedford QBs who have been nothing but busts so far despite great success under his system in college. Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, David Carr, Trent Dilfer and Aaron Rodgers (the jury is still out on some, but so far none have been worthy). Spurrier got similar success from his QBs, yet none were even considered good NFL candidates. Ware and Klingler from the Houston Cougars run-and-shoot days. Look at all the Heisman winning QBs over the last 25 years who either were NFL busts or were never even considered good NFL prospects (i.e. Jason White, Chris Weinke, Weurffel, Gino Torretta, Ty Detmer, Andre Ware, Vinny Testaverde, Doug Flutie). And that's not even including the non-pocket passers from that list (Eric Crouch and Charlie Ward).
Clearly Alex Smith wasn't ready to play in the NFL. It wasn't just because he was a rookie, he just wasn't ready. The same was true for McNair, and also for many other rookies who played in an unconventional college offense. But just because Fisher didn't think they were ready yet doesn't mean that rule applies to all rookie QBs.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
