Climer put this all a bit TOO much on the Titans. While I agree the Titans handled the McNair situation about a poorly as a team could have, to just put it as simply as sweeping an old player out the door with no regard for what he has done for the franchise is a bit nearsighted, even for Climer and his usual dramatic way of taking sides.
I have waffled back and forth on the issue, but what it really comes down to is not so much money, at least I don't think that is the deal breaker here, its that Steve truly believes he can start for the next 2-3 years and wants that "guaranteed" to a degree. This from "oh, I think I might retire" less than a year ago. If he believes his body has 3 years of abuse left in it [Pitts twice a year...umm...I hope they have set aside a special hot tub for Steve in Bmore].
Climer should be throwing in the 2-3 years as a starter back in this equation and put a little ownership of this on Steve.
For those who have no link to this mornings commentary...make the jump!
http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060602/COLUMNIST0202/606020419/1106/SPORTS01
I have waffled back and forth on the issue, but what it really comes down to is not so much money, at least I don't think that is the deal breaker here, its that Steve truly believes he can start for the next 2-3 years and wants that "guaranteed" to a degree. This from "oh, I think I might retire" less than a year ago. If he believes his body has 3 years of abuse left in it [Pitts twice a year...umm...I hope they have set aside a special hot tub for Steve in Bmore].
Climer should be throwing in the 2-3 years as a starter back in this equation and put a little ownership of this on Steve.
For those who have no link to this mornings commentary...make the jump!
http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060602/COLUMNIST0202/606020419/1106/SPORTS01
I think it's a tad harsh. Goodness knows I've been about as critical as anyone on how the Titans FO has handled affairs lately.
With the exception of the McNair lockout, I don't see it as being that dramatically different than what goes on across the league.
Actually, there are a number of cases where players probably should have been released before they were.
With the exception of the McNair lockout, I don't see it as being that dramatically different than what goes on across the league.
Actually, there are a number of cases where players probably should have been released before they were.
The part that bothers me most is the 'starter' thing. Steve probably could 'start' for 2 or 3 more years. I don't think he could 'finish' them. We need a QB that will remain vertical for 16+ games.Laserjock said:
The last couple of years, he hasn't been too impressive. It wasn't too long ago that his performance was so questionable that even Steve mentioned the "R" word. With the decline of the O-Line and loosing Mason hurt his performance. Some of the O-Line retired, some went to other teams for more money and some just got too old and no one wants to sign them. These players, Young included, know what they are getting into when they come to the NFL. Young is a millionaire already and has yet to take an NFL snap. They know what their life expectantcy is. When I retire, I hope I have several million laying around in various banks!
Young could take a lesson from Hopkins. "You're getting old, slow and costly. Thanks for the good years. Now go and enjoy the millions.".
The retirment talk last a season ago is exactly what steams me about the situation.
"No, Steve, we'll give you this surgery that will make you feel better, come back and play."
And now he wants to come back and play...
"No, Steve, we'll give you this surgery that will make you feel better, come back and play."
And now he wants to come back and play...
In hindsight the Titans could / should have just traded Mac when they had the 5th round draft pick and been done with this circus.
Now they are almost forced to fight this thing to the bitter end not giving an inch. Sad. If the Titans didn't think Mac fit into their plans then be up front with Mac and move on.
Now they are almost forced to fight this thing to the bitter end not giving an inch. Sad. If the Titans didn't think Mac fit into their plans then be up front with Mac and move on.
I think much of this is how things have unfolded.Soxcat said:
In March 2004, McNair got a three-year extension. That deal carried over bonus money from his original six-year deal signed in 2001. The $50 mil option bonus which would add three more years was designed to make happen what we're seeing happen.
There was no way either side could know where things would stand up to the day the Titans drafted Young. There's no way to know McNair would want to play another 2-3 seasons.
I can't blame either side for the current situation.
Reese must of thought a fifth-rounder wasn't enough. I certainly didn't when I heard about it. But it may have ended being a mistake to not take it when it's all said and done.
I've said it before, the NFL is 5% football and 95% business. I might think that I can work another 2-3 years, but that is entirely up to my boss and the company. Regardless of my past with the company, regardless of what I've done for the company, when they say go, I've got very few choices. If the company thinks there is a younger guy out there that can do my job better than I can, again, my options are few. We all know that this day is coming. Hopefully I'll have a retirement fund as big as Steves'.
Climer is not worth reading. He's like a tabloid writer trying to puff up the story by over attacking one side. I won't read him! I get better info from posters on this board!!!
What were we talking about again? Ah yes...the green!
Anyone who doesn't think this is about money is not reading between the lines!
Reese doesn't want McNair because of his cap hit...IE MONEY.
McNair wants a trade so he can get more money...period.
He can say it's because he wants to start, but he wouldn't start for Baltimore for the next 3 years either. They already have their heir apparent QB and he's a lot further along than VY.
This is COMPLETELY a money issue though no one wants to make it sound like it. And that's where the Titans have messed up. They locked out the leader of this team over money and everyone knows it.
McNair has been much more saavy...even without a PR firm. He's said all the right things...I just wanna start. My agent is handling all the details and if anything bad comes up...it's my agent. McNair will come out of this smelling like a rose while the damage has already been done to the Titans rep.
The reality is, McNair would make $10mil this year AND start. If he goes to baltimore, he'd make a bit more but - more importantly - get a lot of money up front. And that my friends, is the only real difference in terms of the Titans or Baltimore from McNair's perspective.
No matter where he goes, he won't start for 3 years. The fact that the Jets signed Ramsey and kept Pennington instead of at least inquiring about Steve should tell you A LOT! The Jets are arguably a QB away from a serious run. Pennington and Ramsey are much bigger risks in terms of playing for a year and playing well than McNair. What does that tell you?
Usually when people tell me it's not about the money is when it's ALL about the money!
Gut
What were we talking about again? Ah yes...the green!
Anyone who doesn't think this is about money is not reading between the lines!
Reese doesn't want McNair because of his cap hit...IE MONEY.
McNair wants a trade so he can get more money...period.
He can say it's because he wants to start, but he wouldn't start for Baltimore for the next 3 years either. They already have their heir apparent QB and he's a lot further along than VY.
This is COMPLETELY a money issue though no one wants to make it sound like it. And that's where the Titans have messed up. They locked out the leader of this team over money and everyone knows it.
McNair has been much more saavy...even without a PR firm. He's said all the right things...I just wanna start. My agent is handling all the details and if anything bad comes up...it's my agent. McNair will come out of this smelling like a rose while the damage has already been done to the Titans rep.
The reality is, McNair would make $10mil this year AND start. If he goes to baltimore, he'd make a bit more but - more importantly - get a lot of money up front. And that my friends, is the only real difference in terms of the Titans or Baltimore from McNair's perspective.
No matter where he goes, he won't start for 3 years. The fact that the Jets signed Ramsey and kept Pennington instead of at least inquiring about Steve should tell you A LOT! The Jets are arguably a QB away from a serious run. Pennington and Ramsey are much bigger risks in terms of playing for a year and playing well than McNair. What does that tell you?
Usually when people tell me it's not about the money is when it's ALL about the money!
Gut
I'm going to disagree (a little). I too think money comes into play but I think this has as much, if not more, to do with the future.Gut said:
McNair is young enough to have a few quality seasons in him, IMO. He's only a couple of seasons removed from an MVP year. I don't see why, in the right setting (and with a good supporting cast), be productive another two or three seasons if he stays relatively healthy.
He knows he won't get that opportunity here after '06. Maybe you argue that a solid season from McNair in '06 would keep him the #1 into '07 but the pressure will be on to get Young on the field in '07 and he knows it.
Gut,
I usually get a lot out of your posts, and you clearly have more general football knowledge than I do, but I've got to question two things...
1. Baltimore has their heir of the future? Boller? He's had three years, with an average rating of 69. He's got good weapons around him, I didn't see much excuse for last year, and I've never really seen him have even 1 game where he showed real promise. I think McNair would probably only be a stop gap, maybe a motivational tool for boller to rise to competition, but I think he's about at the end of his leash. Any disagreement?
2. Jets arguably a QB away from a serious run? I just can't agree with that about a team that only won 4 games last year, including us. They've got a lot of questions besides QB. They let Abraham go, will they be able to get enough of a pass rush? Curtis Martin is getting OLD. He might be able to be productive for a few more years, but I don't think he can really carry the load much longer, they need another/a better backup RB. Receiving corps isn't bad, but what about DBs. They let ty law go, and 10 INTs is 10 INTs. Maybe it isn't that big a deal, but I didn't see much this offense to suggest major improvement, and that's what's needed for a 4-12 team to get close to a serious run. What makes you think they're that close?
I usually get a lot out of your posts, and you clearly have more general football knowledge than I do, but I've got to question two things...
1. Baltimore has their heir of the future? Boller? He's had three years, with an average rating of 69. He's got good weapons around him, I didn't see much excuse for last year, and I've never really seen him have even 1 game where he showed real promise. I think McNair would probably only be a stop gap, maybe a motivational tool for boller to rise to competition, but I think he's about at the end of his leash. Any disagreement?
2. Jets arguably a QB away from a serious run? I just can't agree with that about a team that only won 4 games last year, including us. They've got a lot of questions besides QB. They let Abraham go, will they be able to get enough of a pass rush? Curtis Martin is getting OLD. He might be able to be productive for a few more years, but I don't think he can really carry the load much longer, they need another/a better backup RB. Receiving corps isn't bad, but what about DBs. They let ty law go, and 10 INTs is 10 INTs. Maybe it isn't that big a deal, but I didn't see much this offense to suggest major improvement, and that's what's needed for a 4-12 team to get close to a serious run. What makes you think they're that close?
warning : ramble crossing
I get half way down the page and this guy is using the marriage metaphor...
Farve wed until death do us part...
That's long term security todays NFL I guess. Marriage! I'll take a page from the Elf's playbook... Bah! Rings. I bet if Steve had a Super Bowl ring already not much of this would still be happening. Vince could use alot of time to develop. If there was somehow some way they could "promise" to start Steve for two years... He might not even make it. I read somewhere today that is a rankings list compiled of last years most active starting QB's - McDLT (haha get it? dealt? har har) McDLT ... time warp... oh yeah... I was laughing... he was 15th in the NFL and I guess it was passer ratings... but... everyone is throwing around this top 5 notion... and for a league that seems to have an apparent shortage of game ready quarterbacks... there are alot of other names right now that are just making mac9 look as if he's going to semi-automaticaly shoot himself in the foot. Sorry for the ramble... I'm going to go back and read the rest of the article but marriage with no ring is just wrong.:irked: I didn't even get to the part about the kid. I may revisit this.:suspect:
I get half way down the page and this guy is using the marriage metaphor...
Farve wed until death do us part...
That's long term security todays NFL I guess. Marriage! I'll take a page from the Elf's playbook... Bah! Rings. I bet if Steve had a Super Bowl ring already not much of this would still be happening. Vince could use alot of time to develop. If there was somehow some way they could "promise" to start Steve for two years... He might not even make it. I read somewhere today that is a rankings list compiled of last years most active starting QB's - McDLT (haha get it? dealt? har har) McDLT ... time warp... oh yeah... I was laughing... he was 15th in the NFL and I guess it was passer ratings... but... everyone is throwing around this top 5 notion... and for a league that seems to have an apparent shortage of game ready quarterbacks... there are alot of other names right now that are just making mac9 look as if he's going to semi-automaticaly shoot himself in the foot. Sorry for the ramble... I'm going to go back and read the rest of the article but marriage with no ring is just wrong.:irked: I didn't even get to the part about the kid. I may revisit this.:suspect:
3rd person Bipolar's second take. or first? DOH!
two comments...
this has to be the least spoken about point of all this saga.
you think we look bad now? Look good now or look bad later? I feel ok with looking bad now. This is our house and our best win IMO (last year of course, at home, you know, you what I'm saying?) Ratbirds! This is our HOUSE! If we throw his bones to you to pick and scavage we're gonna starve you first.
(you know, thinking back to that prior post... the Ratbirds have had Steve and Eddie and Al Del Greco's SB rings all along! Climer... take that "if you love something let it go" crap, wad it up into a ball the size of a fist and shove it up your :banned: You are just a moron like everyone says. I know that makes you happy so hiss off!)
Bud Adams swings a big stick
Bud Adams does what he wants because he's Bud Adams.
Yeah... sorry for that post as well. :sad2:
two comments...
this has to be the least spoken about point of all this saga.
you think we look bad now? Look good now or look bad later? I feel ok with looking bad now. This is our house and our best win IMO (last year of course, at home, you know, you what I'm saying?) Ratbirds! This is our HOUSE! If we throw his bones to you to pick and scavage we're gonna starve you first.
(you know, thinking back to that prior post... the Ratbirds have had Steve and Eddie and Al Del Greco's SB rings all along! Climer... take that "if you love something let it go" crap, wad it up into a ball the size of a fist and shove it up your :banned: You are just a moron like everyone says. I know that makes you happy so hiss off!)
Bud Adams swings a big stick
Bud Adams does what he wants because he's Bud Adams.
Yeah... sorry for that post as well. :sad2:
GoTitans3801 said:
While I've never liked Boller and I don't think he'll ever become a decent starter, he did have a couple of good games down the road (career games I think), which might have made the Ravens believe that he can still be their QB of the future. But to his credit, just like the Titans, the Ravens virtually didn't have any running game last season.
Boller had a running game with Lewis ran for 2000 yards, and he was still crap.
Volek (who we consider a solid #2) is better than Boller ever will be. Baltimore has low standards for quarterbacks. I mean, really... Dilfer, Grbac, Wright....
Dilfer wasn't terrible. He could manage a game, just not up to winning them by himslef, but he rarley lost one on his own either.
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