i'm talking about the team too, but i understand turning on a player with the Resume of Chris Henry.
jaydog said:
You're right I'm a "Fairweather" McNair fan. When he was on my team i was a fan.
He's not, so I'm not
jaydog said:
yes, ridiculous for a broken down, injury proned QB to leave for another team where he will be lucky to play 2 years and even luckier to play a full season instead of retiring with the team that drafted him and with dignity, unlike his great pal Eddie George.
and they played with a Quarterback who never trained, good leadership there.
And he also cost us atleast one game (Rams)
No, he just left.
And no rookie WR nor Bennett complained about him not practising.
Financially? He's in his 30s and signed a major contract as well as his rookie contract, if he has no money that is his fault.
Career-wise? Again, in his 30s, broken down and a shell of his former self. He will be lucky to last 2 seasons in Baltimore.
Healthwise? By going to a team where the previous QB was sacked more times (23 - 20) in less games (9 to 14) then McNair was in Tennessee last year.
I don't know Steve McNair and he doesnt know me, so he didnt break his body for me, he broke it for the team and then turned his back on team.
And when he played well when he didnt practise (MVP season) he was actually good then.
Why would the Titans, knowing McNair cannot play a full season. pay him a salary he is clearly not worth?
Of course, simple common sense will tell you that McNair will not see the majority of his money in years 4 and 5 of his contract when he has either retired or released.
And the Titans made the right move drafting a QB of the future when the current starter and shell of his former self cannot play upto a standard worth his contract, nor play a 16 game schedule.
Baltimore will be fighting Cleveland for 3rd in the division.
Gunny said:
Retiring with the team that drafted him or the one that embarassed him in front of the entire football world by locking him out of the facilities whether he wanted to practice or not and telling him to take what they would give him and like it or get cut.
Where is the dignity in that?
That's absolutely silly. Dignity is going out on your own terms, not being bullied into it by fans or a team that has no intention of keeping you past this year. That's like saying Joe Montana had no dignity because he chose to finish his career out with the Chiefs, even though he had significant back injuries, just because the Niners wanted the Steve Young era to begin. Joe finished his career on his own terms, playing until he felt he wanted to retire. Your whole premise is silly. Did Jerry Rice have no dignity when he played on a Super Bowl team with the Raiders just because he should have retired with the team that drafted him? Saying a player should retire because you think so is silly. You don't know how much longer Mcnair will play. He may stay healthy enought to play and have a good finish to his career like Rich Gannon. Either way he should decide where and when to finish his career, not some shady owner or selfish fans.
Gunny says,
"and they played with a Quarterback who never trained, good leadership there."
That's absolutely bull also. To say Mcnair was not a leader is absolute bull. And shows how much some of these people are trying to make themselves feel better by trying to detract from what Mcnair has done. For years whenever this team needed to be saved it was Mcnair that did it. Leading this team to victory countless times when defeat was imminent. That's why every former teammate that is currently on the Ravens is as happy as can be because they know they have a real leader under the center.
Gunny said,
"And he also cost us atleast one game (Rams)"
Peyton Manning cost the Colts many games, usually in the playoffs. Brett Farve cost the Packers numerous games last year throwing 29 interceptions. John Elway practically lost Super Bowls early in his career........so what. They all won the teams many more games. Mcnair won the Titans to many games to count and you nitpick one or two. Foolishness.
Gunny said,
"No, he just left.
And no rookie WR nor Bennett complained about him not practising."
And they shouldn't have. He has EARNED more respect in his pinky finger than all of the WRs have amassed in their entire careers.
Gunny again,
"Financially? He's in his 30s and signed a major contract as well as his rookie contract, if he has no money that is his fault."
Nobody said he had no money. But why the hell would he take a paycut when someone wanted him for more than a year and would pay him twice the money to be their starter.....when the Titans were showing their loyalty to him by embarassing him and locking him out. That's stupid. He has an opportunity to make approximately $20M over the next 3 years according to ESPN for a team that is begging him to play for them. But he should stay with a team that is pushing him out the door next year anyway and will make him tak a cut. Assinine!
Gunny,
"Career-wise? Again, in his 30s, broken down and a shell of his former self. He will be lucky to last 2 seasons in Baltimore."
Who are you, his doctor??? How do you know how long he will last? Career wise I was referring to starting for a team with currently a better running back, better TE, Heap is at this time still better than Troupe, a better O-line, and better receivers, and a entirely better defense. At this time the Ravens are indeed better. Maybe not in 2 years but now yes, by far.
Gunny,
"Healthwise? By going to a team where the previous QB was sacked more times (23 - 20) in less games (9 to 14) then McNair was in Tennessee last year."
Kyle Boller was sacked that many times cause he has no pocket presence. Mcnair has for years save the Titans O-line from looking average. Even when he has become less mobile he still knows how to avoid a rush or throw the ball away. Kyle Boller is a sitting duck, held the ball way too long, and made horrible decisions with the ball.
Gunny again,
"I don't know Steve McNair and he doesnt know me, so he didnt break his body for me, he broke it for the team and then turned his back on team."
Bull! He played for the team, the city, the fans, & himself & family. He put it all on the line for all of the above. To say he turned his back on the team is the dumbest thing of all. Absolutely assinine. The Titans turned their back on him and told him take it or leave it. He had enough dignity to say I'll leave it and finish my career on my terms.
Gunny,
"And when he played well when he didnt practise (MVP season) he was actually good then."
And why didn't he practice as much. He was basically too hurt to play at all. The team shot him up with so much pain-killer that he could only play for that short window on Sunday. He toughed it out for the team.
Gunny,
"Why would the Titans, knowing McNair cannot play a full season. pay him a salary he is clearly not worth?"
You keep saying cannot play and will not play a full season. Who are you, the injury fairy? Only time will tell that. If the Titans don't want to pay him, then why get mad when another team decides he is worth it to them. Don't get mad he goes to a team that welcomes him with open arms and the opportunity to play as long as he can or as long as he wants to, instead of staying with a team that has embarassed him and tells him they only one you for one more year and after that they will get rid of you.
Gunny,
"Of course, simple common sense will tell you that McNair will not see the majority of his money in years 4 and 5 of his contract when he has either retired or released."
No you actually hope he doesn't make it 4 or 5 years. He is 33 now. It is not uncommon for QBs to play well at 36, 37, 38. And besides he gets the majority of his money in the first 3 years. He can earn up to $20M in the first 3 years. He gets $11-$12M this year alone. Rich Gannon, Joe Montana, Vinny Testerverde, Randall Cunningham, Brad Johnson are all QBs that people thought were washed up, primarily due to slowing down with injuries and age, but ended up on teams that had good talent and no longer asked them to win the games for them but manage the team and run the ship. That's what Mcnair has now. He has a much better supporting cast in a team that is already built to make a run in the next 2 years or so. The Titans are in full rebuild mold and will realistically be getting really good at the end of these next two years.
The truth of the matter is that you don't want him to succeed with the Ravens because you feel like he turned his back on your team. You hope in some small way that he gets broke down to make you feel better about him leaving.
Gunny,
"And the Titans made the right move drafting a QB of the future when the current starter and shell of his former self cannot play upto a standard worth his contract, nor play a 16 game schedule."
They did make a good decision if drafting a QB of the future. But the way they handled Mcnair was bull. They embarassed him and told him to take it or leave it. Other teams, mainly the Ravens, gave him other alternatives and he took advantage of it. Good for him.
Gunny,
"Baltimore will be fighting Cleveland for 3rd in the division."
Maybe so, maybe not...only time will tell. But one thing is for sure. Mcnair is in a better place for him. The Titans are in a better cap situation. Both should just move forward. And the fans should stop trying to belittle the warrior who busted his *** for them for so long.
People sound like scorned lovers on this board.
Sorry about the jumbled post, I'm working on quoting people, lol!
Actually, I've missed these quoted arguments, it makes for better structure and we've missed it mostly this offseason.
Asinine, Asinine, Asinine Gunny! You've turned your back! How terrible! McNair was not treated with the respect he has earned! We should treat him like Farve, and continue to let him run our team when he's throwing almost 30 INTs per season, he's EARNED it.
IMHO, he's earned his money, and he's earned our respect. He hasn't earned the starting job until he decides to hang it up. We had the chance to get our QB of the future, and we took it. No one has said he would only get one year here. If he stayed and could still play well, I bet he'd start two. However, if he continued to struggle, like we've seen the past two years, it would be handed over to Vince in year two. Do you really think it'll be different in Baltimore? If he doesn't play well, do you think he'll start two full seasons? Do you think he's really more in control there than here? No.
I understand. Steve is a warrior/hero/player/leader/etc... What makes him that is what makes him want to hang on and try for a superbowl. I admire that in the guy. It's clearly something that all aging great atheletes go through. The trick is realizing what he actually WILL be able to do, and how to make that worth something to the team. I think he's also overlooked how much support he would gain after his football career here if he'd stayed. If Steve can play well for two more years he'd be allowed to do that here. He'd be given a backup role at 35, is that really that bad? He'd still probably play some, and be a huge leader for the team. I know it's not what he wants, but it's probably better than what he most likely will end up with in Baltimore. If he fails, or even does not play above average, he'll be replaced sooner rather than later. After a year on the bench, Boller will be back. Most likely, Steve will find himself in the same situation two years down the road, but with a team where he has less history and less love.
You mentioned the insult of being told he couldn't work out here. If you truly believe that that is what that was, and that it's what Steve thought it was, then kindly go back to the newspaper editorials, they'll appreciate your opinion more there. Players are preveneted from working out with the team during renegotiation often, and usually it's the player who instigates it. His being turned away was simply a media ploy set up by Bus Cook to garner the reaction that you and so many others are giving. It happened when Fisher and Reese weren't there, so I'll give Bud some blame on allowing it that way, but Cook's the one who called the cameras, and Cook is the one who sent him over after he already knew McNair wouldn't be allowed to practice. All of that was merely media strategy, and it worked.
IMHO, he's earned his money, and he's earned our respect. He hasn't earned the starting job until he decides to hang it up. We had the chance to get our QB of the future, and we took it. No one has said he would only get one year here. If he stayed and could still play well, I bet he'd start two. However, if he continued to struggle, like we've seen the past two years, it would be handed over to Vince in year two. Do you really think it'll be different in Baltimore? If he doesn't play well, do you think he'll start two full seasons? Do you think he's really more in control there than here? No.
I understand. Steve is a warrior/hero/player/leader/etc... What makes him that is what makes him want to hang on and try for a superbowl. I admire that in the guy. It's clearly something that all aging great atheletes go through. The trick is realizing what he actually WILL be able to do, and how to make that worth something to the team. I think he's also overlooked how much support he would gain after his football career here if he'd stayed. If Steve can play well for two more years he'd be allowed to do that here. He'd be given a backup role at 35, is that really that bad? He'd still probably play some, and be a huge leader for the team. I know it's not what he wants, but it's probably better than what he most likely will end up with in Baltimore. If he fails, or even does not play above average, he'll be replaced sooner rather than later. After a year on the bench, Boller will be back. Most likely, Steve will find himself in the same situation two years down the road, but with a team where he has less history and less love.
You mentioned the insult of being told he couldn't work out here. If you truly believe that that is what that was, and that it's what Steve thought it was, then kindly go back to the newspaper editorials, they'll appreciate your opinion more there. Players are preveneted from working out with the team during renegotiation often, and usually it's the player who instigates it. His being turned away was simply a media ploy set up by Bus Cook to garner the reaction that you and so many others are giving. It happened when Fisher and Reese weren't there, so I'll give Bud some blame on allowing it that way, but Cook's the one who called the cameras, and Cook is the one who sent him over after he already knew McNair wouldn't be allowed to practice. All of that was merely media strategy, and it worked.
Steve McNair did earn our respect over the last 11 years with his miraculous play. Unfortunately he lost some fans respect when he played sub-McNair for 2 years and then finished that off by dropping a giant steamy bird turd on our heads by jumping ship while insinuating "i'm too good for these crappy Titans" and going to the Ravens. Gotitans3801 is exactly right. Bus cook with McNair orchestrated or at the very least manipulated this whole lockout thing so they could get thier way (MAC going to the Ravens)
I'm not proud of the fact that I've lost some love for Mcnair but I'm sickened by those fans that want to give Mcnair a complete pass on this thing just because he took us to the superbowl some 6 or 7 years ago.
I'm not proud of the fact that I've lost some love for Mcnair but I'm sickened by those fans that want to give Mcnair a complete pass on this thing just because he took us to the superbowl some 6 or 7 years ago.
True, True, Hoffa.
Just responding to a very heartfelt post. If Jaydog's going to put forth the effort for that argument again, I'm more than willing to respond. Just because I'm a little hard on Mcnair at this point doesn't mean that I want to be called heartless.
Just responding to a very heartfelt post. If Jaydog's going to put forth the effort for that argument again, I'm more than willing to respond. Just because I'm a little hard on Mcnair at this point doesn't mean that I want to be called heartless.
flamehead2 said:
Now there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But some of these folks have turned into conspiracy theorists. Saying McNair & Bus Cook orchestrated this years ago. How? Did they make the Titans ask him to renogotiate? Both sides knew this day was coming. The Titans made this into a spectacle and thought no one else would want him. Bus Cook did his job and found his client a good opportunity. Once it was clear his old ball club had a take it or leave it attitude.
First of all go back and slowly reread my post. Never did I say Mcnair deserves to be here until he wants to leave. Never did I say the Titans should not draft a QB of the future. I said the opposite the Titans were right to draft a QB of the future.
What I did say was that the constant berating of Mcnair for becoming a Raven was assinine. People are doing that to make them feel better about the situation,trying to turn him into a villian. When in essence he would have been a fool to stay here.
You say no one said he would have to be here for one year only.....bull. How long is his contract for? One more year. Do you really think they were going to resign him next year to be anything more than a backup to V. Young? And they would have demanded to took even less money next year to do that.
You keep talking about how he struggled the past two years. Does this not coincide with the two years of salary cap hell the Titans have been in? They blew up the team and he played with scraps and underdeveloped rookies trying to get a feel. Still last year he threw 16 TDs and 11 int. Like I mentioned earlier Drew Bennett alone accounted for 4 of the ints by tipping balls that hit him directly in the hands in the air to defenders. He only threw 11 ints to Brett Favre's 29. Brett Favre is in the same situation. Had virtually no one around him in Green Bay and his results were way worse.
The reason why Baltimore is a better fit right now is because he won't have to win games for Baltimore as he would have had to try to do for the Titans this year. They have a better O-line, better running game, better receivers & a great TE, and a defense that is still pretty good. They are built to win now. The Titans will take a couple of seasons to become serious Super Bowl contenders again.
Does he have more control in Baltimore? Of course he does silly. They are paying him approximately $15-20M in the first three years of his contract alone. $12M this year. If he stayed here with a one year contract he would have been easy to dismiss after this year. Here V. Young is ready to take the reins in a year or two, not to mention Volek is a capable replacement. Who in Hades are they going to bring in in Baltimore......................K. Boller. Boller has failed miserably and the Ravens are all but admitting it now. He will never start for them again.
So you tell me, where exactly does he have more control? Baltimore is the only answer. Anything else is Titan's colored sunglasses.
Point blank, bottom line...He is going to get $15-$20M from the Ravens who virtually got on their knees and begged him to be their starting QB for the next 2-4 years, instead of taking $5.5M for a one year gig followed by uncertainty again next year from a team that is pushing you out the door. In any career you take the surest thing. He now has far more control over the rest of his career.........good for him.
More bull. Why should he accept a backup role when a team is giving him a starting role. You people on here are full of assumptions and promises. Kyle Boller will never see the field again as the Ravens QB. Everybody just assumes things won't work out with the Ravens. How do we know? Only time will tell. You write him off because it makes you feel better, lol!
Accepting a backup role is stupid when you don't have to. Why would he remain loyal to a team is no longer showing any loyalty to him? Why should he continue to do what's good for the team when he ceased to be a member of the team the minute the locked him out to force his hand.
And who gives a hoot about how the people in Nashville will percieve him in two years. He is from Mississippi. He is as untouchable a legend there as Brett Favre is. And will all the charity work he has done I guarantee not everybody is as fickle as some of the fans are.
No matter how you slice sending a trainer out to do the dirty work was classless. You can say it was a ploy or whatever you want to call it. But there is a reason the arbitrator sided with Mcnair. The premise for the lockout was wrong. The reasons were weak, and the actions were classless.
Why was Cook able to play the organization so easily? He knew that exposing the classless practice would draw heat on the Titans, which it did. Cook did a damn good job of not letting his client get bullied into excepting a take it or leave it offer. That's what an agent is supposed to do.
The Titans have dealt with players quite shadily at times through the years......they really got exposed on this one.
Good job Cook, good luck Mcnair, good luck Volek, and good luck Vince. That's that!
Like I said earlier, his decline in play coincided with the team blowing it's roster up and basically becoming an expansion team. You can't make sugar from ****. Ask Brett Farve.flamehead2 said:
And you say he jumped ship. Well the Titans had a long cattle prod pushing him overboard. You don't give a weak take it or leave it offer and then get mad when the person says, I'll pass. Saying Bus Cook and Mcnair orchestrated this is silly. Both the Titans and Mcnair knew this day was coming. Bus Cook just didn't let the Titans bully his client into accepting a crappy deal with no possible future.
If you lost love for Mcnair that's on you, your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But for me, I gained more respect for the man. You don't bend over and get molested for nobody, not even the people that call you friend. You stand up like a man and control your own destiny, going out on your own terms, not on the terms of some fans who feel gilted because you did what's best for you in the long run. After putting it on the line for over a decade for the team, he deserves to find someone that will put it on the line for him, in this case the Ravens, when that team decides it's ready to go in another direction.
Truthfully the Ravens and the Titans are better off right now......So is Mcnair.
GoTitans3801 said:
I'll respond all day. You can be hard on Mac all you want. But every NFL player and every fan on this board would do the same thing he did if they were really faced with the situation.
Not one of you would have turned down $15 million more dollars and a chance to keep playing and a better chance to win and finish your career on a good note. Not one of you. Especially with no guarantee you will be around past 1 year. If you say you would you are lying to yourselves. You wouldn't do it......Point Blank.
Mcnair made the right decision. The Titans did right to move on and draft the QB of the future. The Ravens did right in upgrading their QB position. And Bus Cook did a damn good job for his client. Some fans are just feeling jilted. They argue how bad Mcnair has been and how he is so broken down....then why all the whining now that he is gone. You should be happy. Why all the hate? Truth is you need him to be broken down. You need him to be bad, so it gives you something to hate now that he's gone. Enjoy the memories and look forward to the soon to be V. Young era. I guarantee you this though. I bet V. Young will neeeeevveeer renegotiate any contract with the Titans. After watching "papa's" saga, he will refuse to push back anything for the team, lol!
That, my friends, is the bottom line.
jaydog said:
Then why do (some) players in the NFL do it?
no, if I had earnt multiple millions of dollars and saved it/invested it whatever so that I am comfortable for the rest of my life and my kids life, i wouldn't need $15 million dollars at age 33. I'd prefer to stay with the team I started with and retire playing for one team.
jaydog said:
I don't disagree with you too much there
jaydog said:
Here's where i begin to disagree with you,
I honestly believe McNair did not play with heart the last 2 seasons he was with the Titans. Let me say this again so you'll understand where I'm coming from. He did not give his all. He was lacluster and mentally, he wasn't like the steve of old. He did not care! Now you don't have to agree with me. But there is nothing you can say or no statistic you can quote that will change my mind. I witnessed it for my self first hand at the games.
I have already stated elsewhere on this board that during the 2004 preseason i noticed something was wrong with Steve mentally and told everyone I knew about it. This was a few months or so before he said he was thinking about retiring. Flash forward to the end of the probowl last season. First thing bus comes out right after the probowl and says he expects the Titans to honor steves contract as is, knowing full well that it would be impossible for the Titans to do that and be even slightly competitive.
I am not with those who are saying steve is washed up. I don't think you'll find a post on this board where i said that. As a matter of fact I THINK THE OPPOSITE! Steve will probably light up the Baltimore sky like the whole city is on fire! He'll probably have a great year! He will play with the fire of 2003 and before. THAT'S WHY I'm BITTER AND PISSED AT HIM!
He's like a spouse that started loving someone else before he announced he wanted a divorce! BY NOT GIVING US HIS ALL IN 2004 AND 2005 HE CHEATED ON THE TITANS AND US FANS!!!
It's really simple to me. The FO is responsible in this too but I'm giving them a pass instead of McNair. WHY? Because they stayed with the team McNair didn't.
Titans | Team agrees to trade McNair to Baltimore
http://www.broncosfreak.com/forum/showpost.php?p=334698&postcount=21 post
http://www.broncosfreak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15713 threadjaydog said:
http://www.broncosfreak.com/forum/showpost.php?p=334698&postcount=21 post
Great posts JayDog. I don't understand the trashing of McNair. Its a win for all parties involved.
Considering many fans wanted NOD over McNair and some have felt that Volek is a better QB, you would think that the masses would be happy to see him leave. Instead we trash the guy. Posters come on here posting the mind boggling stuff, but don't mention the reports of his second and third day of practice. They don't mention the unspoken rapport with Mason that was evident on several passes.
I wish McNair nothing but the best. Its not his fault Reese never got him a #1 WR. Its not his fault to spend 11 years playing for an offensively challenged head coach that wasted his early years. In the right system, I envisioned McNair putting up numbers like Steve Young. I don't have any hate for McNair, just disappointment over what could have been a HOF career.
Considering many fans wanted NOD over McNair and some have felt that Volek is a better QB, you would think that the masses would be happy to see him leave. Instead we trash the guy. Posters come on here posting the mind boggling stuff, but don't mention the reports of his second and third day of practice. They don't mention the unspoken rapport with Mason that was evident on several passes.
I wish McNair nothing but the best. Its not his fault Reese never got him a #1 WR. Its not his fault to spend 11 years playing for an offensively challenged head coach that wasted his early years. In the right system, I envisioned McNair putting up numbers like Steve Young. I don't have any hate for McNair, just disappointment over what could have been a HOF career.
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