Very curious...
Perhaps you've never heard of Steve McNair who was co-MVP of the league in 2003...but that doesn't cut it? Or maybe you've heard of another guy...um...what's his name...Donovan McNabb? Yeah, he hasn't had a successful career so far, huh? Have you perhaps heard of Steve Young...another highly athletic running QB. I believe he's top 5 in NFL history in QB rating....not to mention a couple of Super Bowl rings...
It's not that running QB's can't succeed in this league...it's that there are so few of them that you equate all of them with whatever flaws you see or the busts. Just cause a QB can run, doesn't mean he can throw. If he can run AND throw and learn HOW to play QB...then you have a better weapon than a guy who can ONLY throw. If Vick can get his act together (like McNair and McNabb did), he'll be special. But unlike say...a Peyton Manning when he was developing, while he's throwing a zillion INT's and producing a QB rating of 70...Vick can still help you win games with his feet. And that's the difference. But guys like Vick still need to develop their passing to REALLY be successful.
To put the shoe on the other side of the foot...there have probably been more QB's who bust because of their weak arms than running QB's who don't 'cut it.' But you don't see me saying Leinart CAN'T be successful because his arm is only avg. Before Pennington got hurt, he was a top notch QB...even throwing in the Meadowlands. But there are a ton of guys every year who will never be more than backups (if that) just because they aren't special mentally and only have an avg or weak arm. People like to bring up Joe Montana and how he only had an avg arm...but that was 25 years ago. The avg defender is SIGNIFICANTLY faster now...which means they break on the ball quicker.
I think we covered the last sentence already. Randel-El is shorter than me...that's why he can't play QB in the NFL. He can't really see over the OL. Vick is 6-2 I think and Young is ideal QB size. Those are big differences.
There is one glaring difference between Carson Palmer and Leinart. Leinart has an avg arm while Palmar has a canon! And keep in mind, the guy who trained Palmar and Leinart to play QB is the Titans OC Norm Chow who'll be doing the same thing with VY. That makes me and everyone else here feel better cause we know the tutelage Chow gives to raw but talented QB's.
Short Yardage backs don't have the same yardage totals as the best RB in college. Short Yardage backs don't carry their team for a half in the National Championship game. White is NOT a short yardage back anymore than the Bus is JUST a short yardage back. I agree that White made bad decisions and didn't show his mettle in preparing for the draft. However, he does not take plays off on the field. And re-uniting him with Chow, giving him Fisher and Young as leaders and a huge chip on his shoulder should get him into shape and keep him motivated.
This is a laughable comment. I live in New York and haven't gone to a Knicks game in many years. I wouldn't describe Vince Young as a gang banger...would you? How about David Thornton? Chris Hope? Kevin Mawae? Where are all these gang bangers we're getting?
Enjoy!
Gut
Perhaps you've never heard of Steve McNair who was co-MVP of the league in 2003...but that doesn't cut it? Or maybe you've heard of another guy...um...what's his name...Donovan McNabb? Yeah, he hasn't had a successful career so far, huh? Have you perhaps heard of Steve Young...another highly athletic running QB. I believe he's top 5 in NFL history in QB rating....not to mention a couple of Super Bowl rings...
It's not that running QB's can't succeed in this league...it's that there are so few of them that you equate all of them with whatever flaws you see or the busts. Just cause a QB can run, doesn't mean he can throw. If he can run AND throw and learn HOW to play QB...then you have a better weapon than a guy who can ONLY throw. If Vick can get his act together (like McNair and McNabb did), he'll be special. But unlike say...a Peyton Manning when he was developing, while he's throwing a zillion INT's and producing a QB rating of 70...Vick can still help you win games with his feet. And that's the difference. But guys like Vick still need to develop their passing to REALLY be successful.
To put the shoe on the other side of the foot...there have probably been more QB's who bust because of their weak arms than running QB's who don't 'cut it.' But you don't see me saying Leinart CAN'T be successful because his arm is only avg. Before Pennington got hurt, he was a top notch QB...even throwing in the Meadowlands. But there are a ton of guys every year who will never be more than backups (if that) just because they aren't special mentally and only have an avg or weak arm. People like to bring up Joe Montana and how he only had an avg arm...but that was 25 years ago. The avg defender is SIGNIFICANTLY faster now...which means they break on the ball quicker.
I think we covered the last sentence already. Randel-El is shorter than me...that's why he can't play QB in the NFL. He can't really see over the OL. Vick is 6-2 I think and Young is ideal QB size. Those are big differences.
There is one glaring difference between Carson Palmer and Leinart. Leinart has an avg arm while Palmar has a canon! And keep in mind, the guy who trained Palmar and Leinart to play QB is the Titans OC Norm Chow who'll be doing the same thing with VY. That makes me and everyone else here feel better cause we know the tutelage Chow gives to raw but talented QB's.
Short Yardage backs don't have the same yardage totals as the best RB in college. Short Yardage backs don't carry their team for a half in the National Championship game. White is NOT a short yardage back anymore than the Bus is JUST a short yardage back. I agree that White made bad decisions and didn't show his mettle in preparing for the draft. However, he does not take plays off on the field. And re-uniting him with Chow, giving him Fisher and Young as leaders and a huge chip on his shoulder should get him into shape and keep him motivated.
This is a laughable comment. I live in New York and haven't gone to a Knicks game in many years. I wouldn't describe Vince Young as a gang banger...would you? How about David Thornton? Chris Hope? Kevin Mawae? Where are all these gang bangers we're getting?
Enjoy!
Gut
Guys, lets not get carried away. Although I think VY was a great pick, I don´t think he will necessarily be better than Mc Nair. Times are different, defenses are faster, bigger and stronger, so what we are getting (hopefully) is a modern version of Mc Nair.
)
)Modern version of McNair? McNair is still around and was league MVP only 2 years ago. No one can guarantee he'll even be as good as McNair let alone better...but the attributes are there.
How many QB's drafted in the top 10 have won league MVP's? Now look at how many QB's drafted in the top 5 started more than 5 years and have a career QB rating of 90+? Now look at how many QB's drafted in the top 5 were busts (depending on your definition but they are expected to play at a Pro Bowl level for 3-5 years)?
VY can be better than McNair, but that doesn't mean he will be. Plenty of QB's have been drafted with all the right measureables and not only didn't play as well as McNair, they busted out of the league and killed their franchise for a few years cap-wise.
On the other hand, if you're going after a player, do you take the QB who should be decent to above avg or do you take a longer project who COULD have a hall of fame career?
Gut
How many QB's drafted in the top 10 have won league MVP's? Now look at how many QB's drafted in the top 5 started more than 5 years and have a career QB rating of 90+? Now look at how many QB's drafted in the top 5 were busts (depending on your definition but they are expected to play at a Pro Bowl level for 3-5 years)?
VY can be better than McNair, but that doesn't mean he will be. Plenty of QB's have been drafted with all the right measureables and not only didn't play as well as McNair, they busted out of the league and killed their franchise for a few years cap-wise.
On the other hand, if you're going after a player, do you take the QB who should be decent to above avg or do you take a longer project who COULD have a hall of fame career?
Gut
wplatham said:
No, USC only had 10 points at the half (1 White TD run and a FG). They scored 4 straight TD's in the second half though. White only had 124 yards rushing for the game, and much of that was in the second half, so he was not anywhere near 100 yards in the first half.
SwingOnDeezBalz said:
Vince Young is a much better passer coming out of college than Vick was. It is not even close to be honest with you. Vick has a strong arm, but he is just not an accurate passer and that has held him back in the NFL. Vince's arm is plenty strong enough, but he is also very accurate and has better touch on his throws than Vick ever will. I don't recall Vick's stats in college offhand, but he never sniffed anything close to the passing numbers Vince put up last year (3,036 yards, 26/10 TD/INT, 65% completion). Vince is bigger and stronger too which will make a difference in the NFL.
With the throwing highlights of VY that they show on ESPN when they talk about him, I don't see how anyone questioned his accuracy, touch, and deep ball. They normally show like four or five nice passes by him that are thrown perfectly.
Hawk said:
You nailed it.
Even if Young was the spitting image as Vick as a passer in college Young would have a huge advantage simply because he is 6'5, 230 pounds. He sees the field much better and can run like a FB when he needs to to get a first down or TD. Those are two attributes Vick certainly doesn't have. Infact, if Young had the same stats coming out, with the same achievments but was 6'0 215 instead of 6'5 230 I bet Leinart or Cutler would have been the Titans pick.
On Lendale White. White scored 24 TDs last season. If White does nothing else than come in on 3rd and short or in goal line situations and is successful he was worth the 45th pick IMO. He has shown he can be a much more productive back than that and could be a 1200 yard per year guy for us very easily. The one guy we needed to help our offense this year more than anything was the one guy we drafted at 45.
Did you feel the same about Haynesworth when he showed his immature side a few years back?Titanpride said:
Nuff said. If you think you know a fraction of what the Titans scouts do, it's a waste of time to discuss otherwise.
But for our entertainment pleasure, go back and redo the Titans draft with those YOU know were the better talents. Same slots. Same options. I look forward to it.
The notion that all the Titans picks should have been slotted as starters is silly. Of course the bulk of the picks should be thought of as depth/competition for the established starters.
The idea that the Titans were so bad that there would be 10 or so rookie starters is nuts. Titans had holes and needs I think they addressed everything except OL, and I am just hoping they know what they are doing regarding that situation.
The idea that the Titans were so bad that there would be 10 or so rookie starters is nuts. Titans had holes and needs I think they addressed everything except OL, and I am just hoping they know what they are doing regarding that situation.
The same, no. Haynesworth concern was he was lazy at times and wasn't a good practice player. Did he get into a verbal altercation with Fisher during a practice over effort... absolutely, but he wasn't a thug off the field, and he didn't have his gangbanger buddies throwing gang signs over his shoulder during a nationalized espn draft interview... and his actions still continue. Debate is a big part of the NFL draft, it always has been.TitanJeff said:
Gut said:
Vick is 6'0. And should be a WR. His passing is subpar. Young will be a better QB than Vick has thought of being. All Vick has is his running at this point. He only hits receiver after they've broken open. He has yet to establish a feeling for and anticipating the receiver breaking open like a pocket passer.
This is for the Colts idiot. Polian is slowly but surely turning the Colts into the Bills. Alway close but no cigar. Cap hell is coming, my friend, where will Polian be when that day comes?
Titanpride said:
Gang signs? :suspect:
How are you so sure they were throwing up gang signs?
Vick is only a little behind where McNair was after his first 3 years as a starter...and Vick is a much better runner. Vick still has all-world potential, but he needs to get a lot better. But I think he can....though I'm not sure he will.
As far as Pacman...
The Titans like to portray a sqeaky clean image but many players on past and present teams have had off the field issues. If they felt like it was a one time thing or the player was worth the gamble after falling in the draft...they took a shot.
I seem to recall a lot of people on this board saying not taking Moss...a huge headache kind of guy...was a mistake. If you thought we should have taken Moss, you shouldn't have a problem with the Titans taking anyone with baggage. Of course, you might be like me in saying we shouldn't have taken a 5'9 CB at #6 overall...baggage or no baggage.
Ideally, every player would show leadership qualities...be the first one to practice, the last one to leave, working extra time, the first at all volunteer workouts, ect.
When guys don't show up to volunteer workouts...whether they are legitimately working out on their own or not, it shows a lack of team chemistry. Get a bunch of these guys and all of a sudden you have a bunch of 2nd and 3rd depth chart guys working out at the team facility together while all the 'star' players workout by themselves. Not good for team morale and chemistry. And this just in....football is a TEAM game.
So while Pac's behavior looks worse than it's bite (so far), it DOES have a negative impact on the team...even if he is working out like Superman on his own. This is why Fisher privately probably came down harder on Bulluck when he did it. Bulluck is the leader of the D and you can't have your leaders not LEADING! If Pac wants to live up to his #6 pick value, he needs to play exceptionally well, but also become a team leader both on and OFF the field.
That is what it's about and hopefully, he'll learn something from guys like McNair, Bulluck, Givens, Hope and Mawae.
Gut
As far as Pacman...
The Titans like to portray a sqeaky clean image but many players on past and present teams have had off the field issues. If they felt like it was a one time thing or the player was worth the gamble after falling in the draft...they took a shot.
I seem to recall a lot of people on this board saying not taking Moss...a huge headache kind of guy...was a mistake. If you thought we should have taken Moss, you shouldn't have a problem with the Titans taking anyone with baggage. Of course, you might be like me in saying we shouldn't have taken a 5'9 CB at #6 overall...baggage or no baggage.
Ideally, every player would show leadership qualities...be the first one to practice, the last one to leave, working extra time, the first at all volunteer workouts, ect.
When guys don't show up to volunteer workouts...whether they are legitimately working out on their own or not, it shows a lack of team chemistry. Get a bunch of these guys and all of a sudden you have a bunch of 2nd and 3rd depth chart guys working out at the team facility together while all the 'star' players workout by themselves. Not good for team morale and chemistry. And this just in....football is a TEAM game.
So while Pac's behavior looks worse than it's bite (so far), it DOES have a negative impact on the team...even if he is working out like Superman on his own. This is why Fisher privately probably came down harder on Bulluck when he did it. Bulluck is the leader of the D and you can't have your leaders not LEADING! If Pac wants to live up to his #6 pick value, he needs to play exceptionally well, but also become a team leader both on and OFF the field.
That is what it's about and hopefully, he'll learn something from guys like McNair, Bulluck, Givens, Hope and Mawae.
Gut
Your kidding right, Young against a USC team that is basically a NFL team, took them and bacially said no ur not better than texas or me. he single handily took the USC defense, with NFl player potential on it, and said screw you, you cant stop me. he single hanidly beat a NFL style team. All the hype, all the greatness in USC got shut down by one player, VINCE YOUNG. Also the kid has fun. Thats why i liked him better, he jokes, he luaghs, he makes the best out of every game and situation. He will not crack under pressure. Look at what teams HE beat this year. He is the leader we have been looking for. Hes the one that the guys can look to for a leader and for a job to be done. And dont talk cuz young would **** on sorgi, hes better than that bum right now then he will ever be. Dont hate on young. And also for all u madden gamers....with young on our team....wow no one will beat us lol
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