TitanJeff said:
TJ, you know that doesn't mean squat about his DC ability.
Why wouldn't it? He coordinated a major part of a successful defense. He was the position coach for one of the top LB units in the game.Riverman said:
Yet I am to believe that once he took over the DC job and put together back-to-back quality seasons that he is to blame when the team is hit with a ton of injuries in '04 and lose a number of Pro Bowl players in '05?
I give up.
Personally, I think he's a descent Coordinator and I think most of the people on here just look for things to blame. Our D is on a better track this year. They look better and that's plain to see. Our offense is in much much worse shape than the Defense. You guys should be calling for Chows head not Schwartz. It would help if the defense could get a damn break every now and again to catch their breath. Maybe if BV could get a freaking first down and even score on occassion we would have a better chance of winning some games.
Yep, our defense looks real good.:hmm: Let me take some of you guys on a roadtrip, you've been drinking the water out of the river of De'nyle too long. I can take you to a magical little place where they play defense and hit you in the mouth, I'm sure none of you thought existed, and Schwartzie promised you didn't exist.:gag:
All is copasetic, we will have a great year and lead the league in defense. And tomorrow, we will have world peace! If our defense plays up to par this year, I will eat my words, but WHEN we don't, you guys can EAT ****:grrr:
All is copasetic, we will have a great year and lead the league in defense. And tomorrow, we will have world peace! If our defense plays up to par this year, I will eat my words, but WHEN we don't, you guys can EAT ****:grrr:
Jeff, on the other hand you have to admit the "talent" card doesn't fly either. What talent did we have in 03 that we can't match today? Schulters? Tank? Dyson? Rolle? Kearse? Robaire? Carter?
The following is just my opinion, feel free to post your too:
Thompson & Hope vs. Schulters & Tank (I call that a wash)
Pacman vs. Rolle (Rolle is better, but not by much)
KVB vs. Kearse (KVB is better, but not by much)
Dyson vs. Hill (Dyson was a little better, but not much)
Robaire vs. Starks (Robaire is clearly better)
Carter vs. Odom/Laboy/Schobel (Carter is clearly better)
So basically, in my opinion, we only had a better DE and a better DT than we have today. That can prove the difference between an average and a great defence, but we're not even average.
The following is just my opinion, feel free to post your too:
Thompson & Hope vs. Schulters & Tank (I call that a wash)
Pacman vs. Rolle (Rolle is better, but not by much)
KVB vs. Kearse (KVB is better, but not by much)
Dyson vs. Hill (Dyson was a little better, but not much)
Robaire vs. Starks (Robaire is clearly better)
Carter vs. Odom/Laboy/Schobel (Carter is clearly better)
So basically, in my opinion, we only had a better DE and a better DT than we have today. That can prove the difference between an average and a great defence, but we're not even average.
If playing up to par is finishing in the top half of the league I'll take any bet you have. If your idea of playing up to par is winning the league than no we're not going to be up to snuff... I said our D looks better and it does. If you can't see that your blind.Jwill1919 said:
Vigsted said:
Rolle? Kearse? Robaire? Carter... Pretty good start!
Talent wise, who's to say the defense won't be as good as 03'. It is still pre-season and the first string D is still learning to play together. I'll garauntee this. If we only win 4 or 5 games this year it won't be because of our Defense.
Note about three Pro-Bowlers in that list?Vigsted said:
We've not played a game that counts yet in '06 so there is no way to know. We can pick this up around mid-October if you want to talk about this season's defense.
My entire point is that '04 was about injuries, '05 was about lost talent/experience. We don't know what '06 brings yet.
TitanJeff said:
Yeah and they've been replaced by people with talent to go to Hawaii as well. And besides the Probowl is a popularity contest, nothing more.
If you want to talk Probowl we have several players on D who could challenge for PB spots: Bulluck, Thornton, KVB, Albert, Pacman and Hope.
Sure they could. And if they do, what will you think of Schwartz then? If two of these players make the Pro Bowl, you can bet the Titans defense will be top 15.Vigsted said:
TitanJeff said:
All that says is he is a good 3rd down guy. You know the difference in the vastness of responsibility between that and the DC. The job of DC is quite distinct in scope and responsibility compared to position or situation coaches.
That's like when a good line worker gets promoted and turns out to be a bad supervisor. It happens all the time.
obviously preseason is not a cause to jump to conclusions, but you have to look at last years D and think that surely this preseason we'd have to be better. NOT!!! If Albert or Vaden Bosch go down we will be in a world of hurt, cause so far even when they're playing teams run to the outside and make the rest of our D look like a joke.
You tell me. Both deal with scheming. Both deal with personnel.Riverman said:
Nothing is guaranteed but I think I can understand why he was hired based on his previous success.
TitanJeff said:
As I said, I think the PB is popularity contest, nothing more, however if our defence is in the top 15 I will admit that Schwartz is not an imbecile and that he had inferior talent to work with.
Time will tell which is what I've said from the beginning.Vigsted said:
TitanJeff said:
We're not talking about why he was hired but rather that his "pre-hire" credentials have nothing to do with evaluating his current performance as defensive coordinator. That's my point.
Just because somebody is a good assistant defensive coach doesn't make them a good defensive coordinator. (besides, the reason he was a good asst. was because his DC boss was awesome!
)He had back-to-back top 10 defenses his first two seasons. What else could he have done in '02 and '03?Riverman said:
:wall: :winker:Just because somebody is a good assistant defensive coach doesn't make them a good defensive coordinator. (besides, the reason he was a good asst. was because his DC boss was awesome!
TitanJeff said:
Why do you think franchises let their franchise QB go? Cliche- It's not what you have done for me but what've you've done for me lately. Same case with Schwartz. The defensive has sucked for the past 2 years, appears to be sucking now so the front man is gonna take the heat. Succeed or fail, it falls on the guy. Yes, it's ultimately gonna fall on Fisher also if Schwartz doesn't get it fixed. But until the offense sucks for 2 years and people start railing Chow (which is starting now) Schwartz is going to have to take the heat.
My major beef is you apparently want to give Schwartz a pass and blame it on talent. You seem determined to avoid placing ANY responsibility on his shoulders. Respectfully, we differ in that opinion.
BTW, just kidding about Williams- I can tell that irks you.
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