Does anyone know where I can find his stats before the draft, i.e. combine and pro day numbers? Thanks.
Ben's Pro Day
Here is an article in the Cincinatti Enquirer about his pro-day:
http://bengals.enquirer.com/2004/03/26/Ben-0326.html
eerily similar to Cutler's numbers and pro-day.
and another:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/players/53419.html
Here is an article in the Cincinatti Enquirer about his pro-day:
http://bengals.enquirer.com/2004/03/26/Ben-0326.html
eerily similar to Cutler's numbers and pro-day.
and another:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/players/53419.html
However, Big Ben walked into a team that was playoff quality. Are the Titans? If the answer is no, then a rookie QB (leinart, young or cutler) won't have that same kind of early success.
Sorry to burst your bubble...
Gut
Sorry to burst your bubble...
Gut
"maybe not produce immediate returns" ... lol.
Also, they might have ran the same, but Roethlisberger was like 250.
Also, they might have ran the same, but Roethlisberger was like 250.
BigRob said:
Thanks so much Rob for the goods. Gut, you seem to know where I'm trying to go with this. Yes, I was trying to find similarities in the two, but not trying to say that Cutler would have the same success. But that aside, I do think that both have very much in common coming out. Both went to college's that weren't in the lime light, didn't win a whole lot, are similar in some respects, both have a chip on their shoulder, both are hard workers, etc. I dunno how play-off ready the Steelers were that year. They had just come off a 6-10 season and plugged a few holes. They didn't look too impressive in their opener against Baltimore, but yet found ways of keeping the Rookie from making too many mistakes down the stretch. I'm not saying we could do the same, but we could do something similar. Especially if we loose McNair - Cutler might be able to step in sooner ahead of the others and maybe we can find ways of minimizing possible mistakes by him. Anyways, this is just a few thoughts - not that I think this will happen or anything.....
Titans2008 said:
According to the SI link that Rob posted, Roethlisberger is much slower than Cutler, with Big Ben running in the 4.9 area and Cutler being a 4.77. Also, I thought I read a recent article stating that Cutler had been bulking up some from his 226 or 225 frame? Maybe it was that USAToday article from this week?
Gut...
The point about rothlisberger is that he is good and he was a great pick. So what if he wouldn't have had the same numbers with an average team? Maybe his 98 passing rating with the steelers would translate to just an 88 rating with a mediocre team. I'll take that. I just want to draft a guy who will be a good player for the next 10 years.
The point about rothlisberger is that he is good and he was a great pick. So what if he wouldn't have had the same numbers with an average team? Maybe his 98 passing rating with the steelers would translate to just an 88 rating with a mediocre team. I'll take that. I just want to draft a guy who will be a good player for the next 10 years.
Here's a little something to chew on!
Commence munching...
Here's the simple stats for pitt coming out of the 2003 season (before drafting Big Ben). Then I'll put up the 2004 stats so you can see the impact he made. See if you notice what REALLY made the difference in Pitt in 2004...was it Big Ben?
Pitt's stats in 2003
Offense ranked 22 (299.5)
run game ranked 31 (93yd/game)
pass attack ranked 14 (206.5)
TOP ranked 12th (30:42)
Points for ranked 18 (18.8pts/g)
Defense ranked 9th (298.9yds/g)
run D ranked 12 (108.8yds/g)
pass D ranked 11 (190.1yds/g)
top ranked 12 (29:18)
points against ranked 14th (20.4)
After drafting Big Ben they had a 15-1 record and check out these stats...
Offense ranked 16th (324yds/g)
Rush attack ranked 2 (154yds/g)
Pass attack ranked 28 (170yds/g)
TOP ranked 1 (34min)
Points for ranked 11 (23.2points/g)
Defense ranked 1st (258.4 yds/g)
rush D ranked 1st (81.2yds/g)
pass D ranked 4th (177.2yds/g)
points allowed ranked 1st (15.7points/g)
As you may notice, Pitt drastically changed there record from 2003 to 2004, but the main thing is, there running backs were hurt in 2003 which is why they had one of the worst rushing attacks in the league and why they had to air it out alot more. With the healthy return of their rb's in 2004 and the emergence of polamalu on D, there rushing attack, TOP, overall D, scoring D and run D led the league. Notice that adding Big Ben actually set back there air attack to near LAST in the league.
Taking note of these stats should tell you and the Titans something. Having a great running game and a great D is a good recipe for not only a winning record, but getting back to the Super Bowl. Come to think of it, that's exactly how we got there the first time!
And BTW, any QB drafted in the top 10 who is given the #1 rush offense and the #1 defense in the league SHOULD be successful. Do we have that to offer? Anything close? The answer is a resounding NO!
Here are our stats from last year...
Offense ranked 17th (320.1 yds/g)
rush attack 23rd (95.3yds/g) (we were 29th in rushing first downs)
pass attack 9th (224.8yds/g)
TOP 9th (31:13)
points for 21st (18.7points/g)
defensive ranked 19th (319.4yds/g)
rush D ranked 22nd (118.4yds/g) (we were 31st in 20+yd runs given up)
pass D ranked 17th (201yds/g)
points allowed 29th (26.3points per game)
Some things to keep in mind...
Chris Brown had a 4.9avg the year before but both he and Henry had a 3.8 avg this past season. Something tells me the OT's had something to do with it!
Before last season, several people said taking Derrick Johnson would be a waste since Sirmon is so good...there'd be no point in drafting an OLB. Now people are saying the D can't be expected to be good with a cripple at OLB (sirmon). So which is it? I guess I was correct since we ended up going after Thornton to play OLB.
Sure we had some injuries on D, but with our starting talent (4 first rd picks, 4 second rd picks, 1 3rd rdr, 1 4th rdr and 1 undrafted free agent) there is no WAY we should end up near last in D. And before I hear you tell me how hard it is for rookie corners and the like to fill in, the Pats played a good chunk of their last Super Bowl season (AND the Super Bowl) with an undrafted free agent as a starting CB and a WR playing nickel.
So how do we fix the run game and our D? Draft Leinart, Young or Cutler in rd 1? Hopefully this will give you an idea of the rebuilding that is necessary!
Gut
Commence munching...
Here's the simple stats for pitt coming out of the 2003 season (before drafting Big Ben). Then I'll put up the 2004 stats so you can see the impact he made. See if you notice what REALLY made the difference in Pitt in 2004...was it Big Ben?
Pitt's stats in 2003
Offense ranked 22 (299.5)
run game ranked 31 (93yd/game)
pass attack ranked 14 (206.5)
TOP ranked 12th (30:42)
Points for ranked 18 (18.8pts/g)
Defense ranked 9th (298.9yds/g)
run D ranked 12 (108.8yds/g)
pass D ranked 11 (190.1yds/g)
top ranked 12 (29:18)
points against ranked 14th (20.4)
After drafting Big Ben they had a 15-1 record and check out these stats...
Offense ranked 16th (324yds/g)
Rush attack ranked 2 (154yds/g)
Pass attack ranked 28 (170yds/g)
TOP ranked 1 (34min)
Points for ranked 11 (23.2points/g)
Defense ranked 1st (258.4 yds/g)
rush D ranked 1st (81.2yds/g)
pass D ranked 4th (177.2yds/g)
points allowed ranked 1st (15.7points/g)
As you may notice, Pitt drastically changed there record from 2003 to 2004, but the main thing is, there running backs were hurt in 2003 which is why they had one of the worst rushing attacks in the league and why they had to air it out alot more. With the healthy return of their rb's in 2004 and the emergence of polamalu on D, there rushing attack, TOP, overall D, scoring D and run D led the league. Notice that adding Big Ben actually set back there air attack to near LAST in the league.
Taking note of these stats should tell you and the Titans something. Having a great running game and a great D is a good recipe for not only a winning record, but getting back to the Super Bowl. Come to think of it, that's exactly how we got there the first time!
And BTW, any QB drafted in the top 10 who is given the #1 rush offense and the #1 defense in the league SHOULD be successful. Do we have that to offer? Anything close? The answer is a resounding NO!
Here are our stats from last year...
Offense ranked 17th (320.1 yds/g)
rush attack 23rd (95.3yds/g) (we were 29th in rushing first downs)
pass attack 9th (224.8yds/g)
TOP 9th (31:13)
points for 21st (18.7points/g)
defensive ranked 19th (319.4yds/g)
rush D ranked 22nd (118.4yds/g) (we were 31st in 20+yd runs given up)
pass D ranked 17th (201yds/g)
points allowed 29th (26.3points per game)
Some things to keep in mind...
Chris Brown had a 4.9avg the year before but both he and Henry had a 3.8 avg this past season. Something tells me the OT's had something to do with it!
Before last season, several people said taking Derrick Johnson would be a waste since Sirmon is so good...there'd be no point in drafting an OLB. Now people are saying the D can't be expected to be good with a cripple at OLB (sirmon). So which is it? I guess I was correct since we ended up going after Thornton to play OLB.
Sure we had some injuries on D, but with our starting talent (4 first rd picks, 4 second rd picks, 1 3rd rdr, 1 4th rdr and 1 undrafted free agent) there is no WAY we should end up near last in D. And before I hear you tell me how hard it is for rookie corners and the like to fill in, the Pats played a good chunk of their last Super Bowl season (AND the Super Bowl) with an undrafted free agent as a starting CB and a WR playing nickel.
So how do we fix the run game and our D? Draft Leinart, Young or Cutler in rd 1? Hopefully this will give you an idea of the rebuilding that is necessary!
Gut
And BTW Rolltide, virtually no rookie QB's have a QB rating of 88 even on a good team (except Big Ben) as a first year fulltime starter. About the best you can hope for is a 75-77 (Peyton was a 77 his first year) rating with the bottom range being in the 60-70 range.
And to put that in perspective, it took McNair 7 years to be 88 or better (90) as a fulltime starter.
So an 88 on a mediocre team is...HIGHLY unlikely.
Gut
And to put that in perspective, it took McNair 7 years to be 88 or better (90) as a fulltime starter.
So an 88 on a mediocre team is...HIGHLY unlikely.
Gut
I think having Tommy "big mistake" Maddox behind center might have had something to do with their run game sucking. Just a hunch...
Obviously not since they had a WORSE pass attack the next year under Big Ben but had the #1 rush attack.
Gut
Gut
DeutschTitan said:
Actually, at Big Ben's pro-day, he ran a 4.79, and the other poster was correct, Ben was 250 and 6'5". What I find interesting is that he didn't have a very good combine at all.
Gut said:
Some interesting points, but you left out a few key numbers and thoughts. First, the Steelers runningbacks were not hurt in 2003. Bettis and Zeroque were completely healthy. In fact all of the injuries were to the o-line. So that running back theory goes out the window for you. You need to look at all of the years that Mike Mularkey was oc for the steelers, they became a pass first team. Look at their 2002 stats. Ward and Burress each had something like 1200 yards receiving. After 2003 Cowher returned to a run-first mentality, but his o-line was healthy. The biggest thing that everyone seems to forget about Big Ben and that rookie year was how many 3rd and long situations he was put in. Here was the Steeler's offense: run, run, pass, punt or first down. As a rookie he practically led the league in third down passer efficiency. Say what you want about how he was protected and came to a great team, but the Steelers were picked to finish third in that division and not make the playoffs.
Titans2008...
Your post was that Maddox stinking was the reason the run game was bad. My counter was that with a WORSE passing attack (under Big Ben) they led the league in rushing...so obviously it wasn't due to Tommy Maddox....though he was one of the reasons they weren't very good!
Gut
Your post was that Maddox stinking was the reason the run game was bad. My counter was that with a WORSE passing attack (under Big Ben) they led the league in rushing...so obviously it wasn't due to Tommy Maddox....though he was one of the reasons they weren't very good!
Gut
Big Rob,
I stand corrected. You're right, the RB's were injured the year before and that year it was the OL. And yes, Big Ben's QB rating on 3rd down was over 100 that year...which is amazing (especially compared to his 74 rating on 3rd down this year). Combine that with an awesome D and rush attack and you SHOULD get a 15-1 record.
Any thoughts on how to turn around this ship???
Gut
I stand corrected. You're right, the RB's were injured the year before and that year it was the OL. And yes, Big Ben's QB rating on 3rd down was over 100 that year...which is amazing (especially compared to his 74 rating on 3rd down this year). Combine that with an awesome D and rush attack and you SHOULD get a 15-1 record.
Any thoughts on how to turn around this ship???
Gut
Gut said:
Tommy had a 75 QB rating. Ben had a 98. How is that a worse passing attack? They didn't utilize the pass as much because they didn't need to. Ben was by no means worse than Tommy...
Gut said:
Yes, Build a championship defense again, Defense is always where it should start. That is why the Steelers have been in the playoffs 10 of 14 years, their defense is always top ten. Second, build an extremely strong running game. Third, draft a franchise quarterback. Then when this is built, do not keep backloading contracts and end-up in cap hell. Do what the Steelers do, it may hurt to lose FA, but build through good drafting and have players ready to step in, just like the Steelers. In short, be the 99 Titans.
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