Sorry everyone... another stupid Bipolar thread... I can't seem to help myself...
ok... By reading everyones posts for the last few months I have made a conclusion... but it's kinda silly... but, I know I'm not the only one who has looked at it this way... so, I thought I'd create yet another thread to see if this theory can be validated... anyways... it's about what the impact of a 1st round pick being spent on QB... There has always been a ton of talk about Vince Young and McNair the mentor... we'll that scenario has become less likely IMO. First, I think there is very little chance that Vince Young will be drafted by the Titans, but if he was, McNair would have to start.
But, I've noticed that Jay Cutler has been getting more and more love. In the opinions of some he is no longer a reach to pick at #3. I never would have thought that a month ago. You people actually got me to drink the Cutler Kool-aide... amazing...
Then there is Matt Leinart, who IMO, is very under rated on this board. Maybe Leinart is what Brian and I believe him to be... that is a long term solution to the qb position. I think he could be the next Peyton Manning or Ben Rothlisberger... people knock on his toughness and arm strenth and lack of mobility... Sounds like Tom Brady... what a loser that Tom Brady is...
Speaking of toughness and arm strenth... that brings us to Jay Cutler... Toughness and arm strenth is his middle name... Jay Cutler is the ultimate anti-Peyton IMO. I'm a Vol fan... much more a Titan/NFL fan than a Vol/SEC fan anyways... so what, I can't stand Manning, but you know what? Neither can alot of Volunteer fans...:neener: Bottom line, nothing would be sweeter than beating Peyton with Commodore at the helm...
Ok... so this thread is intended to explore what it may mean for McNair if any of these picks are taken. (and you know one will be)...
also factor this... with Vince Young getting all the terrible press... there may be some GM's that won't look at him. I've heard he could fall out of the top 10? That may be one qb we could trade picks to get... that could mean we could garner an extra third rounder maybe... that scenario is very unlikely...
but still...
What it might boil too...
with selecting Matt Leinart might McNair be cut?
with selecting Jay Cutler might McNair be cut?
are the Titans considering Vince Young at all?
can you get a qb you want by trading out of #3?
what about Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger?
Manning had decent passing #'s as a rookie
the '04 Steelers won 15 games.
Who says a rookie can't play?
Why do the Titans talk about how high they are on Billy Volek yet they demonstrate no faith in him?
Is 10 million or so FA dollars tempting at all?
Is a McNair trade possible at all or is that just fantasy?
If we could trade him are we any better off cap-wise for '06?
How much blame can you hang on McNair for our poor offense?
Do QB's really need practice?:sad2:
ok... By reading everyones posts for the last few months I have made a conclusion... but it's kinda silly... but, I know I'm not the only one who has looked at it this way... so, I thought I'd create yet another thread to see if this theory can be validated... anyways... it's about what the impact of a 1st round pick being spent on QB... There has always been a ton of talk about Vince Young and McNair the mentor... we'll that scenario has become less likely IMO. First, I think there is very little chance that Vince Young will be drafted by the Titans, but if he was, McNair would have to start.
But, I've noticed that Jay Cutler has been getting more and more love. In the opinions of some he is no longer a reach to pick at #3. I never would have thought that a month ago. You people actually got me to drink the Cutler Kool-aide... amazing...
Then there is Matt Leinart, who IMO, is very under rated on this board. Maybe Leinart is what Brian and I believe him to be... that is a long term solution to the qb position. I think he could be the next Peyton Manning or Ben Rothlisberger... people knock on his toughness and arm strenth and lack of mobility... Sounds like Tom Brady... what a loser that Tom Brady is...
Speaking of toughness and arm strenth... that brings us to Jay Cutler... Toughness and arm strenth is his middle name... Jay Cutler is the ultimate anti-Peyton IMO. I'm a Vol fan... much more a Titan/NFL fan than a Vol/SEC fan anyways... so what, I can't stand Manning, but you know what? Neither can alot of Volunteer fans...:neener: Bottom line, nothing would be sweeter than beating Peyton with Commodore at the helm...
Ok... so this thread is intended to explore what it may mean for McNair if any of these picks are taken. (and you know one will be)...
also factor this... with Vince Young getting all the terrible press... there may be some GM's that won't look at him. I've heard he could fall out of the top 10? That may be one qb we could trade picks to get... that could mean we could garner an extra third rounder maybe... that scenario is very unlikely...
but still...
What it might boil too...
with selecting Matt Leinart might McNair be cut?
with selecting Jay Cutler might McNair be cut?
are the Titans considering Vince Young at all?
can you get a qb you want by trading out of #3?
what about Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger?
Manning had decent passing #'s as a rookie
the '04 Steelers won 15 games.
Who says a rookie can't play?
Why do the Titans talk about how high they are on Billy Volek yet they demonstrate no faith in him?
Is 10 million or so FA dollars tempting at all?
Is a McNair trade possible at all or is that just fantasy?
If we could trade him are we any better off cap-wise for '06?
How much blame can you hang on McNair for our poor offense?
Do QB's really need practice?:sad2:
I think it will all play out about the same regardless. McNair will stay in '06 and the rookie will start in '07.
Ideally, if the Titans took Young, you'd hope McNair was around in '07 but I doubt we'll see McNair willing to "step down". I think he'd retire instead if the Titans extend him at some point after the draft.
Ideally, if the Titans took Young, you'd hope McNair was around in '07 but I doubt we'll see McNair willing to "step down". I think he'd retire instead if the Titans extend him at some point after the draft.
I've noticed some think that we should extend McNair for 3 years.
We will not draft a QB #3...
We will take mario or dbrick and then compete for a super bowl next year.
We will take mario or dbrick and then compete for a super bowl next year.
RollTide said:
or Reggie.
i'd rather take The Brick if it were between Brick and Mario. And then when Freeney is a Free Agent next season, get him. :brow:
That is a bold prediction.RollTide said:
That makes us a playoff team then, right?
In all seriousness, if McNair is "Dare McNair terrific"...
that has a real shot... wildcard anyone?
The free agent moves we've made point to a win this year mentality. If so, Fisher can't trust that to a rookie QB. If Billy was the answer, we'd have cut Steve by now. Bottom line, Jeff is right. If and when we extend McNair, it will be for 3-4 years (for cap purposes) with nothing guaranteed after the second year....in substance a two year deal, then two one year deals similar to the reports of TO's deal with Dallas.
Bipolar - I have been thinking about a trade down myself. Unless QB's go 1-2, a trade down to about #6-7 could be a possibility.
Bipolar - I have been thinking about a trade down myself. Unless QB's go 1-2, a trade down to about #6-7 could be a possibility.
Consider this...
When steve young was almost 37 years old he had his best season statistically. Joe montana made the pro bowl at age 37 with the chiefs. Trent green just completed his third straight 4000 yard season at ages 33.34.35. Steve just turned 33 last month.
Rich gannon won an mvp at age 37 and made 4 straight pro bowls at ages 34,35,36,37.
Why then is it so outrageous to think that steve could have 2-3 quality seasons left?
He has no history of concussions unless we count the ones he has given other people, no major knee surgery of the kind culpepper and palmer have now had. His throwing arm is fine. He is just a couple of seasons removed from an mvp. He is keeping himself in better shape, keeping the weight off. And this year he will have all kinds of weapons to throw to.
This guy is clearly a better than average QB, a proven winner and we talk about him like he is a pile of crap.
When steve young was almost 37 years old he had his best season statistically. Joe montana made the pro bowl at age 37 with the chiefs. Trent green just completed his third straight 4000 yard season at ages 33.34.35. Steve just turned 33 last month.
Rich gannon won an mvp at age 37 and made 4 straight pro bowls at ages 34,35,36,37.
Why then is it so outrageous to think that steve could have 2-3 quality seasons left?
He has no history of concussions unless we count the ones he has given other people, no major knee surgery of the kind culpepper and palmer have now had. His throwing arm is fine. He is just a couple of seasons removed from an mvp. He is keeping himself in better shape, keeping the weight off. And this year he will have all kinds of weapons to throw to.
This guy is clearly a better than average QB, a proven winner and we talk about him like he is a pile of crap.
Go back and see if those older QBs you mention also had as many injury issues as McNair has throughout their careers.RollTide said:
RollTide said:
I hope you're right on this RollTide. As enticing as those three young QB's are, look how cheaply some pretty decent QB's were acquired this off season; former MVP Cullpepper for a second round pick, Brees, a playoff and pro bowl QB, an unrestricted FA, former first rounder Ramsey for a sixth... You certainly didn't see any big time left tackles or DE's coming that cheaply. Look at UFA o-lineman Hutchinson from Seattle, Minnesota signs him to a virtually unmatchable offer sheet and yet Seattle still is contemplating matching it (and risking future salary cap hell).
Are rookie QB's being devalued, much like veteran RB's? Is it perhaps better to let someone else pay them for the first four years of "apprenticing", then pick them up at a discounted rate when they become free agents or lose the confidence of their organization (kind of like Harrington)?
I actually don't mind the idea of taking Omar Jacobs in the second, so we don't have to commit so much coin on an unproven QB.
I think first build a strong, cohesive team and only after that is accomplished should you address the QB situation, that seems to be the way to go in the current NFL. I say draft D'Brick and see how the season plays out. If we feel the QB position needs to be addressed next off season I'm sure Floyd can do so at a price far less than the 3rd pick in the draft.
Hopefully this is coherent, I'm sleep deprived today so my brain is a tad addled (more so than usual even)
Yes they did jeff...
Joe montana's back was so bad they thought his career might be done at 30. He suffered a horrible concussion in the 86 playoff game and broke his wrist. He missed 15 games in his last year with the 49ers.
Young had a history of concussions that caused him to quit just one season after making the probowl.
I'm not suggesting mcnair will be winning MVPs beyond age 35. All i'm suggesting is that he has some good football left in him at 33 and 34. With the titans working so hard to build a good team why would we want to dump the guy who has been the guts of this team? Every aspect of this offense can be better in 2006. The o-line, the running game, the WR. Maybe we draft dbrick to improve the line even more. Maybe we trade down and draft deangelo williams.
Mcnair is a better than average nfl QB and should be better than average for at least 2 more seasons.
Joe montana's back was so bad they thought his career might be done at 30. He suffered a horrible concussion in the 86 playoff game and broke his wrist. He missed 15 games in his last year with the 49ers.
Young had a history of concussions that caused him to quit just one season after making the probowl.
I'm not suggesting mcnair will be winning MVPs beyond age 35. All i'm suggesting is that he has some good football left in him at 33 and 34. With the titans working so hard to build a good team why would we want to dump the guy who has been the guts of this team? Every aspect of this offense can be better in 2006. The o-line, the running game, the WR. Maybe we draft dbrick to improve the line even more. Maybe we trade down and draft deangelo williams.
Mcnair is a better than average nfl QB and should be better than average for at least 2 more seasons.
The thing that scares me is that last year McNair was reported to be at his best physically in many years, yet he still had to sit out and awful lot with injuries.
I love McNair as much as anyone but he isn't going to take the Titans back to a Super Bowl if the last two seasons have been any indication. Even when he plays on Sunday, he often times doesn't practice during the week. That may have been fine with veteran WRs but the young receivers need work with their QB.RollTide said:
But even if McNair can stay relatively healthy, this team is going to be primed to make a their biggest runs in '07 and beyond. Are you wanting McNair at the helm then? If not, who is the Titans QB when the team is ready to challenge? Do you pull in a QB from free agency or hope they have someone they've developed through the draft ready to step in and take over?
I think getting a QB via the draft is the best way for that to happen. And for that QB to be ready by '07 or '08, then you draft him in '06.
Mcnair would have missed one game...
If that last game was essential to making the playoffs mcnair would have been out there.
He only missed 2 games, could have played one of them and was not racked with numerous minor injuries.
He doesn't run as much and while that takes that edge off his game that helped make him an elite player it also helps to keep him healthy.
In 2003 steve won the mvp sitting in the pocket throwing to the many solid weapons we had. We had a lot of good receivers that year and 2006-2007 can be like that. No rookie WR, better running game and the addition of givens.
If that last game was essential to making the playoffs mcnair would have been out there.
He only missed 2 games, could have played one of them and was not racked with numerous minor injuries.
He doesn't run as much and while that takes that edge off his game that helped make him an elite player it also helps to keep him healthy.
In 2003 steve won the mvp sitting in the pocket throwing to the many solid weapons we had. We had a lot of good receivers that year and 2006-2007 can be like that. No rookie WR, better running game and the addition of givens.
Jeff...
We didn't sign all these free agents to compete beyond 2007. That's 4 significant signings of starting players and of course we will be drafting high for the second straight year.
Even if we draft vince young he may need a couple of years to be ready to play at a very high level. So we have steve for that time with vince holding a clip board. If that's what we do. We will still draft a QB even if it is not with the third pick. Omar jacobs in rd 2 or someone else later.
We didn't sign all these free agents to compete beyond 2007. That's 4 significant signings of starting players and of course we will be drafting high for the second straight year.
Even if we draft vince young he may need a couple of years to be ready to play at a very high level. So we have steve for that time with vince holding a clip board. If that's what we do. We will still draft a QB even if it is not with the third pick. Omar jacobs in rd 2 or someone else later.
This time last year a lot fewer people imagined life w/out Steve in 06. It seems like now there is a money issue, people think losing him would give us a dramatic improvement. Are you kidding? Let's see. Rookie, Billy or Steve...Steve clearly gives the team the best chance for success in 06. Yes, we definitely need to draft his replacement now (it won't get any better), but I for one hope we give him that two to four year deal to alleviate some of the cap pressure his current contract is causing. RT makes a good point about some of those QBs later successes. Steve may or may not see years that good at the end of his career, but how can you not want that for him on our team? So he may retire. So he may move on to another team that appreciates him more. So he may suck. He deserves the chance to lead this team another year. If he tears it up, the naysayers aren't going to then say "let him go" or "bench him." That kind of controversy would be welcome.
I am sort of tempted to draft D'Brickashaw and see how well the offense improves, but drafting a QB is a must this year (Omar Jacobs in the 2nd if we draft D'Brick). OL is also a high priority, and because of that, I think when Sirmon returns and still expresses his desire to leave, signing Griesen would be the way to go (he shouldn't cost that much) then we draft OT (more likely) or OG (less likely) in the 2nd.
Though the FA QB signings have weakened the value of the top picks somewhat, I would consider if I were Reese trading with a team like the Jets or Raiders, and I would tempt them by dropping the value somewhat, less than what NO wants. I'd take maybe a 1st/2nd and future pick. We'd still get our QB (I doubt if we were at #7 that someone tries to trade with GB or SF to get a QB) and have two picks in round two, where we could address OL and best talent, whether it's LB/S or other. We'd have added some value and satisfied those who are unsure about drafting Cutler or Young at #3, meaning, if we're going to take them, it's better to take them and get an extra pick out of it. Finally, Volek should be moved at some point for a 3rd. That way we could spend the draft on those last couple of holes, then going after pure talent.
I am sort of tempted to draft D'Brickashaw and see how well the offense improves, but drafting a QB is a must this year (Omar Jacobs in the 2nd if we draft D'Brick). OL is also a high priority, and because of that, I think when Sirmon returns and still expresses his desire to leave, signing Griesen would be the way to go (he shouldn't cost that much) then we draft OT (more likely) or OG (less likely) in the 2nd.
Though the FA QB signings have weakened the value of the top picks somewhat, I would consider if I were Reese trading with a team like the Jets or Raiders, and I would tempt them by dropping the value somewhat, less than what NO wants. I'd take maybe a 1st/2nd and future pick. We'd still get our QB (I doubt if we were at #7 that someone tries to trade with GB or SF to get a QB) and have two picks in round two, where we could address OL and best talent, whether it's LB/S or other. We'd have added some value and satisfied those who are unsure about drafting Cutler or Young at #3, meaning, if we're going to take them, it's better to take them and get an extra pick out of it. Finally, Volek should be moved at some point for a 3rd. That way we could spend the draft on those last couple of holes, then going after pure talent.
No, they didn't. But if you think adding them all of a sudden makes the Titans a Super Bowl contender, I'd say you're putting far too much into the signings.RollTide said:
I agree. Keep McNair. Groom whoever they draft for a year or so. But address the future QB now while you have a number of quality options. That's why the Titans will take a QB with the third pick unless someone gives them the farm in a trade.
Mcnair had a bad season last year and I attest that to poor recievers more than anything. When you have to rely on Drew Bennett as your #1 you know your in bad shape. Givens will give us a second legitimate threat at the very least which is something we didn't have last year. We've got some good young WR's and I would look for them to improve quite a bit this year giving Steve some nice targets to throw to.
As for which QB we're going to take, who knows... Who ever we get isn't going to see much pt this year anyway. And as for the idea that they cut Mcnair and let a rookie QB take over, I would amazed if that happened.
As for which QB we're going to take, who knows... Who ever we get isn't going to see much pt this year anyway. And as for the idea that they cut Mcnair and let a rookie QB take over, I would amazed if that happened.
Young had concussion problems, but none of these guys was as injury prone as McNair. McNair can't even slide without getting hurt these days. I think he gets a two year deal ('06 and '07). The starting job is his for one year. We draft a QB (I hope it's Leinart at #3). If by chance McNair has a good year and stays relatively injury free in '06, he stays for '07 and competes for the starting job. If not, he's cut, the kid takes over, we take the managable cap hit, and move on.RollTide said:
Remember, this is a guy who has been talking about retirement for two years.....and HE'S NOT Brett Favre.
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