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I think BPA is a dying philosophy in this free agent era. GMs still give lip service to it, but not many teams will ever again have the luxury to simply choose the best player available regardless of what position he plays. In this year's draft, the Steelers, the defending world champions, are a perfect example. They traded up to get Santonio Holmes at number 25. Now Holmes is a fine player, but does anyone feel he was the actual best player available at number 25? He was the best player available to fill a need the team had because of free agent losses the past couple of years. It will be that way forever more for NFL teams.
 
how 'bout BPA determined by critical positional need

if the BPA everytime it came to you was a WR, you wouldn't just load up on WR would you ?

then again, I don't think Reese took the BPA at the position

for instance, I thought Terna Nande was a better LB than Tulloch
and had Ko Simpson rated a little higher than Lowry

but I am no pro scout and didn't see the things that they saw
however, sometimes I just can't figure out what Reese is thinking
 
How do we know that Reese didn't take the BPA? He said he took the need guy WHEN they were rated, graded the same or similar. I trust Reese would have taken the BPA if the grade was not real close. Reese obviously had Lowry "graded" HIGHER than any other safeties available. Why would he take the lower grade?

Look at the picks near the mid to bottom of the 3rd round. Who in that group was worth trading our 4th rounders for to move up and take?
It would have been real nice to get Youboty but moving up that far was not an option. Giles and Bing went right before we picked in the 4th so if Reese was thinking about getting one of them he probally was hoping they would fall in his lap. Ko Simpson was such as stud prospect that all 32 teams passed on him for 3 rounds. Also, by the time our picks came up in the 4th virtually all the OL that could have been considered an upgrade to our existing young guys were gone.
 
The one pick that stings for me in the entire draft was Jean-Gilles. Philly traded up to get him a few picks ahead of us, but the truth is, Reese might well have taken someone else even if Jean-Gilles was available, and I would have been left wondering. To state the obvious, we don't know all that much about these guys. We see some on TV (Bing) and read some things about them and the names become recognizable so we think they're the best players, but there are so many others we know nothing about. Lots of people were hoping for Ko Simpson in the second before the draft started (he was a guy most of us were familiar with) but as Soxcat pointed out, no one took him through three rounds. When Bing, who many thought was a stud safety, was taken, it was to be moved to linebacker. To be perfectlly honest, Mahelona was the only guy we drafted on day two that I knew anything about at all (and I'm not sure I know how to spell his name...lol)
 
don't pretend to tell me that Reese has always made the 'prudent' pick
every year there are some questionable picks as per his 'grading'
 
tonic, i was referring to Sox's response (apparently to mine)
you got your post in before I did
didn't even get a chance to read yours yet
 
Past picks that were questionable (imo)

2004
2nd round *Travis LaBoy - for the spot, jury is still out
3rd round *Rich Gardner

2003
1st Round *Andre Woolfolk
2nd Round *Tyrone Calico

2002
3rd Round * Rocky Calmus
4th Round *Mike Echols *Tony Beckham *Rocky Boiman
5th Round *Jake Schifino
(none of these guys are still with us)
(as a matter of fact only Albert Haynesworth remains from the 2002 draft - not that that has anything to do with the success of the draft, but it is a startling fact to reveal)

2001
3rd Round *Shad Meir
5th Round * Eddie Berlin

2000
3rd Round *Byron Frisch
4th Round *Bobby Myers
5th Round *Frank Chamberlain *Aric Morris

1999 - a good overal draft
4th Round *Brad Ware

1998 - another good draft
3rd Round *Dainon Sidney

1997
2nd round * Joey Kent
3rd round *Scott Sanderson
4th round *Pratt Lyons

1996
2nd Round *Bryant Mix *Jason Layman
4th Round *Kendrick Burton

1995
2nd Round *Anthony Cook
3rd round *Torey Hunter

I'll stop here as thisis essentially the first draft of the team that ultimately moved to Tennessee.
I'll point out that I left alot of the later picks alone, but some of the earlier rounds were questionable to say the least

I havent taken the time to install who Floyd past on in these drafts but suffice to say there was probably better talent available at the time
 
for clarification, I'm not saying that some of these picks were bad (and some of them were), but I'm saying that I don't think - and I'm sure other people don't think that these guys were the BPA at the time
 
Puck said:
Past picks that were questionable (imo)

2004
2nd round *Travis LaBoy - for the spot, jury is still out
3rd round *Rich Gardner

2003
1st Round *Andre Woolfolk
2nd Round *Tyrone Calico

2002
3rd Round * Rocky Calmus
4th Round *Mike Echols *Tony Beckham *Rocky Boiman
5th Round *Jake Schifino
(none of these guys are still with us)
(as a matter of fact only Albert Haynesworth remains from the 2002 draft - not that that has anything to do with the success of the draft, but it is a startling fact to reveal)

2001
3rd Round *Shad Meir
5th Round * Eddie Berlin

2000
3rd Round *Byron Frisch
4th Round *Bobby Myers
5th Round *Frank Chamberlain *Aric Morris

1999 - a good overal draft
4th Round *Brad Ware

1998 - another good draft
3rd Round *Dainon Sidney

1997
2nd round * Joey Kent
3rd round *Scott Sanderson
4th round *Pratt Lyons

1996
2nd Round *Bryant Mix *Jason Layman
4th Round *Kendrick Burton

1995
2nd Round *Anthony Cook
3rd round *Torey Hunter

I'll stop here as thisis essentially the first draft of the team that ultimately moved to Tennessee.
I'll point out that I left alot of the later picks alone, but some of the earlier rounds were questionable to say the least

I havent taken the time to install who Floyd past on in these drafts but suffice to say there was probably better talent available at the time
Click to expand...

Every pick by every team is questionable at some level. For instance, Bush is the truth .... right, but what if he doesn't explode immediately, then was he a questionable pick... I think not, because he will either immediately or later and the same goes for everybody else.
 
WoolfolksUncle said:
Every pick by every team is questionable at some level. For instance, Bush is the truth .... right, but what if he doesn't explode immediately, then was he a questionable pick... I think not, because he will either immediately or later and the same goes for everybody else.
Click to expand...

granted its a little early to be questioning our 2004 draft, but we should be seeing something from our 2003 draft by now

meaning Andre and Ty - and we're not
this year would be a PERFECT year for Andre to step it up

if Andre and Ty don't make some form of elevated impact THIS year then it's time to let them go
 
All GMs have their list of crappy picks. It happens. I agree that Reese has had his share. What we don't know is if Reese really was taking BPA based on his grade or not because we are not privy to his list. What we do know for sure however is that almost everyone on this board thought Ko Simpson or Bing would have been a decent "BPA" pick in the second round and NO team of the 32 NFL teams thought they were worth even taking them in the 3rd round.

Then to say a guy like Lowry is not good just because nobody really heard much about him is ridiculous. We will have to wait to see.
 
BPA is a bunch of crap! If a QB was the BPA every year in the first round at our pic and we had no offers to trade down are we gonna pic a QB lets say 3 years in a row? Or you are loaded up at a certain positon and the BPA plays that positon are you still gonna take him?
 
First of all, no one said anything about using BPA on every pick...

Secondly, I think it's funny that any average football fans like us thinks that they know more about who the best players are than the guys running an NFL team who do it as a full time job.
 
sometimes the fans have more instinctive perspective

for instance, I coulda told you all day that Moss was going to be better than Dyson
 
Puck said:
think of it like this (hypothetically)

say you need a LB , a Safety, and a OG
you wanna take the BPA of one of those positions, right ?
Click to expand...

First of all we need to define what BPA actually means. I've argued before on this board that it is almost impossible to differentiate BPA of player at different postions. The BPA's of this draft may have been Vernon Davis, Brick or AJ Hawk for all we know. Thats why when picking #3 or #6 in the draft you are selecting as much on need as you are on BPA. Thats what the Texans ended up doing. They needed a dominating DE much more than another RB. Hard to argue their logic. Even if VY was by far the BPA when we picked if McNair was only in his 5th year no way we take VY with that pick.

However, later in the draft you have to be carefull to not go too hard after need because you will end up with a bunch of duds while passing on guys who could be solid players. Going back and reviewing the players available for each 2nd day pick, considering we didn't have a 3rd rounder, I think Reese did about as well on paper as we could expect.

Remember when Reese took Bell in the 5th round a couple of years ago. Many of us were thinking, who is this guy? Bell ended up starting at LG the whole year and played well. Let's hope we can hit like that again on just a few of these new guys.
 
Soxcat said:
First of all we need to define what BPA actually means. I've argued before on this board that it is almost impossible to differentiate BPA of player at different postions. The BPA's of this draft may have been Vernon Davis, Brick or AJ Hawk for all we know. Thats why when picking #3 or #6 in the draft you are selecting as much on need as you are on BPA.
Click to expand...
I'm hoping one day that Reese tells the world how he grades players. I bet we would be underwhelmed.

I'm guessing he gives a number to a position first. Let's assume he feels QB is a harder position to play than G. That automatically makes the QB ranked higher because of the skill involved to play the position.

Then you look at the player himself against every other player in that position not only that year but throughout history. Size, weight, speed, film, character, etc. I think that is where it gets muddy because much of it is just based on judgement.

Mix it all together, you get a draft grade.

No doubt need plays into the mix. Not so much for this year but beyond based on who Reese feels the Titans might resign. This year, let's assume that natually elevated players at QB and LB. Last year, it was CB and WR.

Thats what the Texans ended up doing. They needed a dominating DE much more than another RB. Hard to argue their logic.
Click to expand...
It depends on where you rank Bush against those who came out before him at the position. Some believed he was the best RB to enter the draft in a decade. If that is the case, then you must throw need out the window because you have a difference-maker on your team and his skills far overshadow any need you may have.

But they apparently felt Mario had those same qualities in a need position. Time will tell.

However, later in the draft you have to be carefull to not go too hard after need because you will end up with a bunch of duds while passing on guys who could be solid players.
Click to expand...
Need plays more a role, IMO, in those later rounds. But most teams have many needs so there are usually options. Especially for a team lacking the depth the Titans appear to be.

The thing is, we all assume there is some kind of amazing formula the Titans have which somehow grades one player over another when I bet there is a lot of plain ol' gut instinct at work here.
 
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