Don't you wish we could just fast forward to draft day, take Vince Young and move on. Everyday we get some NFL talking head saying Vince can't run in the NFL, he can't throw, his test score was low...Hey, the guy can ball. Do you not remember the Rose Bowl? The guy is like 32-2 as a starter at Texas.
JDee
JDee
You know... this is a good as place as any to post this...
I wish we could ff>> to the point where Vince Young's Titans send Peyton home again with nothing in what turns out to be the last playoff appearence in Manning's illustrious career.
Of course the Titans go on to win the Super Bowl too but as long as we're wishing and dreaming might as well stop to smell the roses...
I wish we could ff>> to the point where Vince Young's Titans send Peyton home again with nothing in what turns out to be the last playoff appearence in Manning's illustrious career.
Of course the Titans go on to win the Super Bowl too but as long as we're wishing and dreaming might as well stop to smell the roses...
unless you just want to go ahead and write VY off as one of the best athletes in college that never made it in the pros......
I still likes me some Vince ...
I like what Reese said. “But it’s interesting in how you will find guys that are really, really bright that just don’t test well, and just the opposite. A guy will score a 40 on it and can’t get across the street.”
you can hae a genius at QB who's just too slow progressing through his read and lets the ball out too late
or a guy that might not read real well (yet) who'll make a quicker decision and get it away quicker or find a lane to get a down
As of now, Vince is really no different than Steve was in the early years
I like what Reese said. “But it’s interesting in how you will find guys that are really, really bright that just don’t test well, and just the opposite. A guy will score a 40 on it and can’t get across the street.”
you can hae a genius at QB who's just too slow progressing through his read and lets the ball out too late
or a guy that might not read real well (yet) who'll make a quicker decision and get it away quicker or find a lane to get a down
As of now, Vince is really no different than Steve was in the early years
I hope by now we've figured out that Oregon is a QB friendly system, not to ever rate one of their QBs high. What can be said about "Super" athletes at the QB position, or running QBs? I not too impressed with what Vick has done in Atlanta, yet he was unstoppable in college too.
I wish we could all just rewind back to the National Championship game with VaTech and Florida State, watching Vick make the FSU D look like old men. Sounds a lot like the "Legend of Vince" Rose Bowl to me. A running QB is bound to get hit more(McNair, Vick, Steve Young) and their playing window is ultimately shortened. If you take away Vince's legs(Knee injury, broken ankle) how effective would he be if he couldn't rely on that part of his game? Whereas, if you take away Carson Palmer's legs(knee surgery) will it really affect his game, yes, he might lose a bit of mobility, but will it make him a worse passer? No
When Vince Young gets hurt, not if, but WHEN he does, how much will it change his game and productivity?
I wish we could all just rewind back to the National Championship game with VaTech and Florida State, watching Vick make the FSU D look like old men. Sounds a lot like the "Legend of Vince" Rose Bowl to me. A running QB is bound to get hit more(McNair, Vick, Steve Young) and their playing window is ultimately shortened. If you take away Vince's legs(Knee injury, broken ankle) how effective would he be if he couldn't rely on that part of his game? Whereas, if you take away Carson Palmer's legs(knee surgery) will it really affect his game, yes, he might lose a bit of mobility, but will it make him a worse passer? No
When Vince Young gets hurt, not if, but WHEN he does, how much will it change his game and productivity?
Maybe I'm crazy, or maybe just old school, but if I was scouting a QB, I'd probably place more stock in a guy's accomplishments on the field over the course of his college career than I would in a 30 minute standardized multiple choice test...especially if the guy possessed freakish athletic ability.
But that's just me.
But that's just me.
The biggest concern I have with Vince Young is can he transition to the NFL. Not if he was a great college QB. The guy was awesome in college. There are alot of guys who have awesome stats in college with awesome win loss records. Those don't mean much because alot of those guys never made it in the NFL or were only average QBs. IMO VY is a little better version of Charlie Ward for FSU.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/heisman/news/2000/09/24/charlie_ward/
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/heisman/news/2000/09/24/charlie_ward/
Jwill1919 said:
I think this is a great point and a great example. IMO it's a major reason why Steve hasn't piled up more accolades. Lower Wonderlic QB's have tendencies to rely on their run game, have more injuries and thus shorter productive careers.
I think we can expect a similar career from Vince that we've gotten from Steve. I'm OK with this, but I'm beginning to believe Cutler is a better choice with what he brings between his ears.
I don't know about next year's QB class and hopefully we won't be picking in the top 5 next years. I guess this really is the year to replace the QB in our rebuilding puzzle.
Jwill1919 said:
All of these points you are making are assumptions. Thats it...ASSUMPTIONS.
Let me ask you this. If you have a QB who could get the first down by running 7 yards and all of his options are covered would you rather him throw the ball and risk a turnover or throw the ball out of bounds? Believe it or not running the ball is part of every QB's game. Some may not want to do it, but they all do.
You pointed out injuries to mobile QB's seems to happen more. Another assumption. Being immobile can cause injuries as well(Rex Grossman), and also shorten careers(Troy Aikman). I believe Elway had a long career and he was a mobile QB.
I am watching you talking about everything Vince has and things that lack, but don't be surprised those who are not believers when Vince guide the Titans to one of the best teams in NFL, just like the ones who doubt anytime about Pac and when he returned all those punts and kickoffs for big gains, all you cheered that, so keep on talking about Vince, nobody believed in McNair and he is the heart and soul of our team and the man who guided us to the Super Bowl...
Can Young run? Yes. He showed that in college. Can he throw? Absolutely. Folks want to talk about how he runs, etc., but ignore the fact that Young was among the highest and most accurate passers in college last year. That can not be ignored. I am not saying he will end up a stud or a bust, but if you are going to use his running success in college for basis of arguement, you can't ignore the other part of his game.
On another point, the Wonderlic is perhaps the most overrated part of the combine. Dan Marino scored a 16. Based on some of the responses here, he should have been mediocre. Are you telling me Joe Namath and Terry Bradshaw would have had great scores?
Bottom line, when you are a top rated player at the beginning, like Leinhart and Young, folks want to find fault. They want to tear them down. Happens all the time. Manning came out was easily the top player in the draft at the beginning and then suddenly he is fragile, not durable, etc. Our coaches will evaluate each player and choose the one that they think is the best choice. They know more that we do. But the one thing I can guarantee you 110%, whoever we pick, you will see a number of posts whining about how we should have picked. GUARANTEED.
On another point, the Wonderlic is perhaps the most overrated part of the combine. Dan Marino scored a 16. Based on some of the responses here, he should have been mediocre. Are you telling me Joe Namath and Terry Bradshaw would have had great scores?
Bottom line, when you are a top rated player at the beginning, like Leinhart and Young, folks want to find fault. They want to tear them down. Happens all the time. Manning came out was easily the top player in the draft at the beginning and then suddenly he is fragile, not durable, etc. Our coaches will evaluate each player and choose the one that they think is the best choice. They know more that we do. But the one thing I can guarantee you 110%, whoever we pick, you will see a number of posts whining about how we should have picked. GUARANTEED.
Gotta read this!
Alright. I have just read this study from 2004 that, among other very interesting findings, concluded that the Wonderlic has no correlation with NFL passing efficiency.
Vince Young is the man.
http://www.thesportjournal.org/2005Journal/Vol8-No2/mac-mirabile.asp
Summary and Conclusions
The market for NFL rookie quarterbacks was examined between 1989 and 2004. Attempts to model passing performance using player and team characteristics revealed statistically significant relationships between a quarterback’s collegiate passing performance and his race and teammates. Intelligence, as measured by the Wonderlic score, was statistically insignificant. Likewise, while expected relationships were found between collegiate passing performance and NFL rookie year salary, the author found no statistically significant relationship between intelligence and compensation or intelligence and draft number after controlling for passing ability. Although the models revealed no compensation for smarter players at the quarterback position, such compensation may indeed exist at other positions where such a wide variety of performance statistics are not readily available. Future studies may endeavor to control for more of the franchise- and league-specific factors that impact the drafting and compensation of collegiate athletes.
This article presents empirical evidence that within the modern draft era, there exists no statistically significant relationship between intelligence and quarterback performance at either the collegiate or professional level. Likewise, more intelligent quarterbacks are neither selected earlier nor compensated more for their mental abilities. Since no statistically significant relationship exists between tested intelligence and performance within the data examined in this study, NFL franchises might better utilize resources by focusing on other aspects of quarterback evaluation.
Alright. I have just read this study from 2004 that, among other very interesting findings, concluded that the Wonderlic has no correlation with NFL passing efficiency.
Vince Young is the man.
http://www.thesportjournal.org/2005Journal/Vol8-No2/mac-mirabile.asp
Summary and Conclusions
The market for NFL rookie quarterbacks was examined between 1989 and 2004. Attempts to model passing performance using player and team characteristics revealed statistically significant relationships between a quarterback’s collegiate passing performance and his race and teammates. Intelligence, as measured by the Wonderlic score, was statistically insignificant. Likewise, while expected relationships were found between collegiate passing performance and NFL rookie year salary, the author found no statistically significant relationship between intelligence and compensation or intelligence and draft number after controlling for passing ability. Although the models revealed no compensation for smarter players at the quarterback position, such compensation may indeed exist at other positions where such a wide variety of performance statistics are not readily available. Future studies may endeavor to control for more of the franchise- and league-specific factors that impact the drafting and compensation of collegiate athletes.
This article presents empirical evidence that within the modern draft era, there exists no statistically significant relationship between intelligence and quarterback performance at either the collegiate or professional level. Likewise, more intelligent quarterbacks are neither selected earlier nor compensated more for their mental abilities. Since no statistically significant relationship exists between tested intelligence and performance within the data examined in this study, NFL franchises might better utilize resources by focusing on other aspects of quarterback evaluation.
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