Additional things to chew on...a quick muncher...
Schwartz doesn't have enough talent? For simplicity sake, I will address talent as where players were drafted, not career stats. The Titans D last year - when healthy - had 4 first rdrs, 4 second rdrs, 1 third rdr, 1 4th rdr, and 1 undrafted free agent. For comparison purposes, team B had 3 first rdrs, 2 3rd rdrs, 4 4th rdrs, 1 5th rdr, and 1 6th rdr. The Titans SHOULD be vastly superior, right?
Who do you think has the better D....the talent laden Titans or team B? Think about how much of a talent difference in favor of the Titans that is...now see the results!
Titans D stats were abyssmal...
19th in yards (319.4yds/gm) 24th in yards per play (5.3)
29th in points allowed (26.3/g)
17th against the pass (201 yards/g)*
22nd against the run (118.4 yds/g)**
*we were 30th in the league in interceptions (and we're a ZONE team)!
**we were tied for 31st in 20+yard runs given up!
Even with injuries, this is a terrible showing. 29th in points allowed?!?!?
Team B's stats...
overall 4th (284yds/g) tied for 2nd in yards/play (4.6)
points allowed 3rd (16.1pts/g)
pass d 16th (198yds/g) 2nd in pass tds given up (only 15)
run d 3rd (86yds/g) only 3.4avg per carry
It's amazing with this huge talent deficit, however do the Steelers field a top 5 D most of the time while we can't even crack the top 15 let alone the top 10! And other teams do much better when hit with the injury bug...afterall, NE won a Super Bowl with an undrafted free agent rookie CB starting fulltime and a WR playing nickel back!
Prior to this year you could have made the case that without an established pass rusher, how could our pass D be any good...? But KYB had over 10 sacks last year (and went to the Pro Bowl) and we STILL finished near last in points allowed?
Still wanna expalin how the Titans have a lack of talent on D? In terms of draft picks, they are arguably one of the most talented defenses in the league...so why aren't they playing like it?
Gregg Williams has an excellent philosophy when coaching defense and it goes like this. If players are screwing up and not performing, it's because the coach is letting them!
And BTW, 2 years ago, the Steelers had little pass offense to speak of but rode to a 15-1 record on the strength of their excellent running attack (the Bus and an excellent OL) and the #1 D (which despite it's holes in talent, still beat everyone out)!
Gut
Schwartz doesn't have enough talent? For simplicity sake, I will address talent as where players were drafted, not career stats. The Titans D last year - when healthy - had 4 first rdrs, 4 second rdrs, 1 third rdr, 1 4th rdr, and 1 undrafted free agent. For comparison purposes, team B had 3 first rdrs, 2 3rd rdrs, 4 4th rdrs, 1 5th rdr, and 1 6th rdr. The Titans SHOULD be vastly superior, right?
Who do you think has the better D....the talent laden Titans or team B? Think about how much of a talent difference in favor of the Titans that is...now see the results!
Titans D stats were abyssmal...
19th in yards (319.4yds/gm) 24th in yards per play (5.3)
29th in points allowed (26.3/g)
17th against the pass (201 yards/g)*
22nd against the run (118.4 yds/g)**
*we were 30th in the league in interceptions (and we're a ZONE team)!
**we were tied for 31st in 20+yard runs given up!
Even with injuries, this is a terrible showing. 29th in points allowed?!?!?
Team B's stats...
overall 4th (284yds/g) tied for 2nd in yards/play (4.6)
points allowed 3rd (16.1pts/g)
pass d 16th (198yds/g) 2nd in pass tds given up (only 15)
run d 3rd (86yds/g) only 3.4avg per carry
It's amazing with this huge talent deficit, however do the Steelers field a top 5 D most of the time while we can't even crack the top 15 let alone the top 10! And other teams do much better when hit with the injury bug...afterall, NE won a Super Bowl with an undrafted free agent rookie CB starting fulltime and a WR playing nickel back!
Prior to this year you could have made the case that without an established pass rusher, how could our pass D be any good...? But KYB had over 10 sacks last year (and went to the Pro Bowl) and we STILL finished near last in points allowed?
Still wanna expalin how the Titans have a lack of talent on D? In terms of draft picks, they are arguably one of the most talented defenses in the league...so why aren't they playing like it?
Gregg Williams has an excellent philosophy when coaching defense and it goes like this. If players are screwing up and not performing, it's because the coach is letting them!
And BTW, 2 years ago, the Steelers had little pass offense to speak of but rode to a 15-1 record on the strength of their excellent running attack (the Bus and an excellent OL) and the #1 D (which despite it's holes in talent, still beat everyone out)!
Gut
thats a quick muncher? You written more in that post then i have in my entire time here. But still make a good point.
BTW who is the undrafted FA on the Titans D?
BTW who is the undrafted FA on the Titans D?
It WAS Kassell. I compared last year's projected starters. Thank goodness their love of Kassell is over!!!
Ugh!
And Gunny, if I didn't write up quick munchers...what would you have to read? Surely you're overwhelmed with hype of the big 3...
Gut
Ugh!
And Gunny, if I didn't write up quick munchers...what would you have to read? Surely you're overwhelmed with hype of the big 3...
Gut
Gut said:
forgot all about Kassell.
Plus 7th rounder in Reynaldo starting too.
I'm over the big three. bring on the draft.
Most of the options listed here are rather fatalistic, and mention only the worst-case scenario; my responses tend to be guardedly optimistic, but I believe they're still fairly objective.
1 - McNair is done/over the hill/washed up. We need a new QB.
I disagree, but there's no use beating a dead horse. That being said, he's likely gone this year, and their choice of QB in this draft will indicate the direction of the team for the next few years.
2 - The OL is hurting and can't protect our QB and open enough holes for the run game. We need OL help.
Virtually the entire O-line will be revamped this year...it's quite possible that we'll have new starters in 4 of the 5 O-line positions. I don't necessarily expect them to dominate, but they'll be a big improvement over last year.
3 - Chris Brown is not the answer and Henry is a drug test away from being out of the league. We need a new RB.
See #2....a good O-line will make all the difference in the world. Sure, it would be nice to have a franchise-quality RB a la Ladanian Tomlinson....but a solid running game is all that's necessary. And the Brown/Henry combo could be solid, as long as the O-line does their part.
4 - We lack quality at WR. Sure Bennett is nice, but what's after him? Calico either isn't cutting it or hurt and the others are too young and not experienced enough to be dependable #1 or #2. We need a WR.
This year's WR corps will be similar to that of the Seahawks....perhaps not particularly flashy or explosive, but very solid and effective. On opening day last year, the entire WR corps had a combined total of 6 yrs. experience, and both Bennett and Calico missed a significant number of games. (Remember when the injuries hit so hard, leaving Courtney Roby as the #1 and Sloan Thomas as the #2? No wonder the passing game struggled.)
5 - Our DL is better on paper than on the field. We don't get a consistent pass rush and need DL help. The DL should be okay....they simply had zero support from the LB's last year. Bulluck was the only real blitz threat last year; add Thornton and a quicker MLB, and blitz packages will be much more effective. (Also, don't forget how the light finally came on for LaBoy toward the end of the season....he finally started getting consistent pressure on QB's. Expect to see more of the same this year.)
6 - Outside of Bulluck, we have no one. Though the 'new' guy will hopefully help, is Sirmon the answer at MLB? We need a LB. Heck...just by adding Thornton, they've effectively doubled the effectiveness of the LB corp. Sirmon and Kassell did virtually nothing last year, leaving Bulluck to cover the entire field by himself. Adding Thornton cuts Bulluck's workload in half, allowing him to focus on his side of the field. Thornton will hold down the fort on the other side. Sure, we need a MLB, but it doesn't have to be a Pro Bowler...just a guy who can be solid in the middle, without leaving the gaping holes we saw last year.
7 - Despite having 2 first rdrs as starting CB's, we can't cover anyone! We need a CB. Samari Rolle didn't exactly hit the ground running, but he quickly developed into one of the premiere cover corners in the league. Pacman and Hill may not be Champ Bailey, but they definitely showed flashes last year; they'll be better this year, and hopefully put it all together.
8 - Maybe losing Lance hurt more than some thought and Tank is not the same player. We need a Safety.
Enter Chris Hope; he should provide the leadership that the secondary was lacking last year, and will "hope-fully" do for the Titans what Rodney Harrison did for the Patriots' secondary.
9 - Our offense was inconsistent...maybe Chow is not good in the NFL ala Paul Hackett. We need a new OC. Unfortuntely, Chow's offensive philosophy requires that players execute the plays properly, and is dependent upon having an O-line that blocks and receivers who can get open. The Titans players evidently didn't grasp these concepts last year.
10 - Our defense has been on the decline since Schwartz didn't have the best talent in the league on D. We need a new DC. Okay, no argument there; I believe Schwartz' defenses have never been as good as the personnel he was given. And when the talent level slipped a notch, the entire defense took a nosedive.
11 - Fisher has lost this team. They are undisciplined, don't hit hard anymore, aren't hungry and he's the leader of the ship. We need a new HC. I wouldn't dump the guy after one bad season....this year he can wipe the slate and start from scratch. But another season like last year will likely be the end of Fisher.
12 - Reese used to be lauded as one of the best GM's in the game, but he let Runyan, Kearse, Rolle and Mason all leave without getting anything in return. Worse, his drafting has been questionable and the players aren't panning out. A one year re-build is gonna turn into 3-4 years and end the Steve McNair era. We need a new GM. For several years, Floyd's their cap management strategy focused on short-term success...that bill has come due in the last couple years. Time will tell whether Floyd learned anything from the experience. Floyd had two or three down years in the draft, but has done well in the last year or two...it will be another year or two before we can accurately judge the quality of those drafts.
1 - McNair is done/over the hill/washed up. We need a new QB.
I disagree, but there's no use beating a dead horse. That being said, he's likely gone this year, and their choice of QB in this draft will indicate the direction of the team for the next few years.
2 - The OL is hurting and can't protect our QB and open enough holes for the run game. We need OL help.
Virtually the entire O-line will be revamped this year...it's quite possible that we'll have new starters in 4 of the 5 O-line positions. I don't necessarily expect them to dominate, but they'll be a big improvement over last year.
3 - Chris Brown is not the answer and Henry is a drug test away from being out of the league. We need a new RB.
See #2....a good O-line will make all the difference in the world. Sure, it would be nice to have a franchise-quality RB a la Ladanian Tomlinson....but a solid running game is all that's necessary. And the Brown/Henry combo could be solid, as long as the O-line does their part.
4 - We lack quality at WR. Sure Bennett is nice, but what's after him? Calico either isn't cutting it or hurt and the others are too young and not experienced enough to be dependable #1 or #2. We need a WR.
This year's WR corps will be similar to that of the Seahawks....perhaps not particularly flashy or explosive, but very solid and effective. On opening day last year, the entire WR corps had a combined total of 6 yrs. experience, and both Bennett and Calico missed a significant number of games. (Remember when the injuries hit so hard, leaving Courtney Roby as the #1 and Sloan Thomas as the #2? No wonder the passing game struggled.)
5 - Our DL is better on paper than on the field. We don't get a consistent pass rush and need DL help. The DL should be okay....they simply had zero support from the LB's last year. Bulluck was the only real blitz threat last year; add Thornton and a quicker MLB, and blitz packages will be much more effective. (Also, don't forget how the light finally came on for LaBoy toward the end of the season....he finally started getting consistent pressure on QB's. Expect to see more of the same this year.)
6 - Outside of Bulluck, we have no one. Though the 'new' guy will hopefully help, is Sirmon the answer at MLB? We need a LB. Heck...just by adding Thornton, they've effectively doubled the effectiveness of the LB corp. Sirmon and Kassell did virtually nothing last year, leaving Bulluck to cover the entire field by himself. Adding Thornton cuts Bulluck's workload in half, allowing him to focus on his side of the field. Thornton will hold down the fort on the other side. Sure, we need a MLB, but it doesn't have to be a Pro Bowler...just a guy who can be solid in the middle, without leaving the gaping holes we saw last year.
7 - Despite having 2 first rdrs as starting CB's, we can't cover anyone! We need a CB. Samari Rolle didn't exactly hit the ground running, but he quickly developed into one of the premiere cover corners in the league. Pacman and Hill may not be Champ Bailey, but they definitely showed flashes last year; they'll be better this year, and hopefully put it all together.
8 - Maybe losing Lance hurt more than some thought and Tank is not the same player. We need a Safety.
Enter Chris Hope; he should provide the leadership that the secondary was lacking last year, and will "hope-fully" do for the Titans what Rodney Harrison did for the Patriots' secondary.
9 - Our offense was inconsistent...maybe Chow is not good in the NFL ala Paul Hackett. We need a new OC. Unfortuntely, Chow's offensive philosophy requires that players execute the plays properly, and is dependent upon having an O-line that blocks and receivers who can get open. The Titans players evidently didn't grasp these concepts last year.
10 - Our defense has been on the decline since Schwartz didn't have the best talent in the league on D. We need a new DC. Okay, no argument there; I believe Schwartz' defenses have never been as good as the personnel he was given. And when the talent level slipped a notch, the entire defense took a nosedive.
11 - Fisher has lost this team. They are undisciplined, don't hit hard anymore, aren't hungry and he's the leader of the ship. We need a new HC. I wouldn't dump the guy after one bad season....this year he can wipe the slate and start from scratch. But another season like last year will likely be the end of Fisher.
12 - Reese used to be lauded as one of the best GM's in the game, but he let Runyan, Kearse, Rolle and Mason all leave without getting anything in return. Worse, his drafting has been questionable and the players aren't panning out. A one year re-build is gonna turn into 3-4 years and end the Steve McNair era. We need a new GM. For several years, Floyd's their cap management strategy focused on short-term success...that bill has come due in the last couple years. Time will tell whether Floyd learned anything from the experience. Floyd had two or three down years in the draft, but has done well in the last year or two...it will be another year or two before we can accurately judge the quality of those drafts.
ridiculous.............anyone knows why this team has won 9 games................THE CAP. And that is the only reason...............every team has to pay the piper.............we just did.Gut said:
I understand that. But we are out of the worst of the cap trouble, I believe that if the defense does not make some significant improvment, then Jimmy S should be looking for a new job. The defense does not play with the intensity that it used to under Greg Williams, they dont hit.bongo59 said:
Maybe Hope and Thorton will change that
Bongo, as he's stated, he's not arguing those points, he's putting them forth as possibilities to be debated. I'd say some of them were at the least contributing factors last year, but most of them have been addresses/will be before the offseason is over.
My real concern at this point is the oline.
My real concern at this point is the oline.
GoTitans3801 said:
I feel the same way; however, there is a precedent for hope:
In 2003, the Chargers were simply abysmal. During the offseason, they replaced 4 starters on the O-line, with only their center coming back for '04 (As I recall, at least one of the replacements was a rookie...they may have actually had two rookies starting.)
As we all know, the Chargers experienced an amazing turnaround that year, going from 4-12 to 12-4.
And while the Titans have a lot of question marks, their outlook is considerably brighter than the Chargers' hopes were for that year.
Differance between the Chargers and the Titans, the Chargers had the arguably the besk RB in football, LT. The Titans have Chris "Im hurt again" Brown and Travis "Ricky Williams is my idol" Henry at RB. I must say that the Titans WR do look better than the 2004 Chargers did.Nine said:
maximus said:
Yeah, but they had LT in '03, too...and while he was amazing, the Chargers still went 4-12.
Good point, don't remember that Brown had a pretty good year in 04-05, so if our O-Line is solid enough, and Brown's injuries are only niggling ones, then we could have a decent running game, bearing in mind the change of pace with Travis ''oh my god he took drugs who cares'' Henry.
2 things changed everything for the Chargers...they got a new OL coach (who's know touted as one of the best in the biz) and Brees finally delivered!!!
But for us, the OL is what is dragging the offense down. Brown had a very high avg before last season (4.9 i think). Last year he was at 3.8...a full yard shorter per carry. What changed? The OL. Worse still is, we were losing a lot of those games so the avg is actually a bit inflated since teams with a big lead aren't worried about your running game.
So why is Brown not the guy? When he was annointed as the second coming before even seeing fulltime action, I brought up durability as a concern. But when healthy, isn't he good enough? Didn't he prove that in 04-05 with 1k+ yards and a 4.9 avg over ONLY 11 starts? Seems to reason that if the OL improves the running game improves. If Brown can run 4.5-4.9 ypc then he'll be fine as long as we have a good backup. I wouldn't write Brown off so soon...
But as far as the OL goes, can Roos play LT well? Who's gonna play RT? Will they improve or is this gonna be another learning experience year for them? If we don't have solid pass protection, they shouldn't even think about drafting Leinart and starting him from day 1. On the other hand, Young would be better at running for his life and dumping it to Troupe. On the opposing hand, having D'Brick at LT and Roos at RT could make this line one of the best in the league in 2-3 years and who our QB is wouldn't matter as much.
And thanks to those who keep pointing out that the debate points are NOT what I think is wrong with the Titans...only areas one can debate.
But for us, the OL is what is dragging the offense down. Brown had a very high avg before last season (4.9 i think). Last year he was at 3.8...a full yard shorter per carry. What changed? The OL. Worse still is, we were losing a lot of those games so the avg is actually a bit inflated since teams with a big lead aren't worried about your running game.
So why is Brown not the guy? When he was annointed as the second coming before even seeing fulltime action, I brought up durability as a concern. But when healthy, isn't he good enough? Didn't he prove that in 04-05 with 1k+ yards and a 4.9 avg over ONLY 11 starts? Seems to reason that if the OL improves the running game improves. If Brown can run 4.5-4.9 ypc then he'll be fine as long as we have a good backup. I wouldn't write Brown off so soon...
But as far as the OL goes, can Roos play LT well? Who's gonna play RT? Will they improve or is this gonna be another learning experience year for them? If we don't have solid pass protection, they shouldn't even think about drafting Leinart and starting him from day 1. On the other hand, Young would be better at running for his life and dumping it to Troupe. On the opposing hand, having D'Brick at LT and Roos at RT could make this line one of the best in the league in 2-3 years and who our QB is wouldn't matter as much.
And thanks to those who keep pointing out that the debate points are NOT what I think is wrong with the Titans...only areas one can debate.
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