TitanJeff said:
Even with their credentials there are still some questions about their ability in the NFL. Does Leinart have a strong enough arm? Is Young with his awkward delivery and not having to drop back from center have the ability to make those adjustments. Not to mention there are questions about Young's arm as well.
Actually, IMO neither of these guys is at the "credential" level of either of the Mannings. Seriously I doubt anyone would trade the combination of picks the Giants traded to get Manning from the Chargers for either of these guys. With that in mind didn't Ryan Leaf get graded out as good as Peyton Manning and there were questions of which one would be the better pro QB? I guess someone could say before that draft that rarely do we see two stud QBs come out of college at the same time with the potential these guys had. That just shows how the hype and glorification of these guys means little considering one is going to the HOF and the other....
Ryan Leaf was a 6'5 235 pounds. Although Manning ended up being selected first overall by the Indianapolis Colts, there were several draft "experts" that felt Leaf would be the better quarterback. In exchange for moving up one spot in the draft, the Chargers gave Arizona their first round pick (3rd overall), their second-round pick (32nd overall), their 1999 first-round pick, as well as wide receiver/kick returner Eric Metcalf, and linebacker Patrick Sapp.
Brian Griese was taken in the same draft late in the 3rd round. Matt Hasselbeck was taken in that draft late in the 6th round.
Move up one year to the 1999 draft. Again we have a couple of "can't" lose QBs. The Browns take Tim Couch to be their savior and impact player. Meanwhile the 2nd pick is booed by the Phily fans as they take McNabb.
At the 11 and 12 position Culpepper gets taken by the Vikings and the great Cade McNown is snatched up by the Bears. See what I'm seeing. 50% success rate and these guys are early 1st round picks and we have as many duds drafted in the #1 or #2 spot?
In 2000 Chad Pennington is picked #18 by the Jets (not real high and he turned out pretty good). Two guys picked up in the 6th round as hopefull backups or 3rd string guys were Tom Brady and Marc Bulger.
In 2001 the number 1 pick was Mike Vick. Vick isn't a bust but if we take Young and he isn't any better passer than Vick I would be dissapointed. Drew Brees was the first pick of the 2nd round.
2002 was another one of those wonderfull years for QBs. #1 pick was David Carr and the #3 was Joey Harrington. Nuff said.
2003 we finally get a top 3 QB that is worth a flipp in Carson Palmer who by the way IMO was miles ahead of Leinart and Young when he came out. He is far more pysically gifted than Leinart and is a true NFL drop back QB.
McNabb is a good example of what a QB can be with and without talented WR's. He's been fairly average until they aquired Owens
DeutschTitan said:
that may be true for 31 teams in the league
but not for this one
Reese / Fish don't like taking chances
(well, except on PacMan)
Out of those 5 players, if the titans picked the worst, who would you be most gutted about? Like Kevin Dyson and Randy Moss.
I'd have to say Matt Leinart because he has the most pro ??s like arm strength but he has the poise and stuff which can't be taught.
I'd have to say Matt Leinart because he has the most pro ??s like arm strength but he has the poise and stuff which can't be taught.
there's something about Matt
i can't quite put my finger on it
the 2 QB prospects are pretty equally enticing
Vince knows Steve
Matt knows Norm
I don't think he's gonna be the one to WOW the league, so I wouldn't get quite as upset as I would if we didn't get Vince
i can't quite put my finger on it
the 2 QB prospects are pretty equally enticing
Vince knows Steve
Matt knows Norm
I don't think he's gonna be the one to WOW the league, so I wouldn't get quite as upset as I would if we didn't get Vince
If I had to pick one I'd say D' Brick... Next would come Hawk. Out of Leinhart, Young, or Bush it's really hard to tell. They are all going to crapy teams and that could have a lot to do with what kind of success they have. If you put any QB or on a team with no run game and poor oline than they are going to have problems, especially when they're rooks, and so will young RB's. I'm trying to stay optimistic in thinking the Titans are coming up out of the crappy team catagory but we are what we are. At the same time, if Young or Leinhart got thrown into a situation like Rothlessburger did I think they'd both do very well. Hopefully, who ever the Titans pick will have the best run.
Are we just looking at arm strength? I think most would agree that it takes much more (leadership, mobility, decision-making, etc.) to be among the best at the position.RollTide said:
I'd take either if they were CLOSE to doing what Peyton Manning has done. But at the college level, neither Manning took their teams to the level both of these guys have done. Both Manning were not able to win the big games and both of these picks have.Soxcat said:
Let's also remember we are getting one of these players at #3. Not #1. That's value.
I think i change my mind everyday on who we should pick. My most recent decision is that we take a quarterback as our first pick, whether it's Cutler, Leinhart, or Young. We then draft an offensive lineman in the 2nd round. I thought this would be better since you can get a bettter offensive lineman in the 2nd round than you could a quarterback and they would be easier to improve than the quarterback.
TitanJeff said:
Like getting a bust at 3 is so much better than getting one at 1?
QB has been one of the most difficult postions to predict. Here is a link to a good article on the subject even though it is a 2001 article.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/statitudes/news/2001/04/12/firstround_qbs/
Winning the big game is way overblown in college as well. How many college QBs even have a shot at the big game? Heck Volek could have won the big game if he played at USC. Look at all the college QBs that won big games as well as Heisman awards and never amounted to anything.
Didn't Miami win a championship with the great Dorsey at QB when Dorsey threw for 362 yards against Nebraska? The logic of giving too much emphasis on winning the big game is shown in even mentioning Eli Manning as one who never won the big game. Eli Manning is a poster child of how you can be a great college QB and because of the team you play on not have a shot at the big game. Manning's stats his senior year were 253-of-400, 3,340 yards, 27 TDs, 9 INTs. He could be twice as good as Leinert for all we know.
I picked Ferguson, but remember Robert Gallery 2 years ago, everyone thought he was a guarantee Prow Bowl LT, and right now he's played basically average at RT for the Raiders. No one is a sure thing, but I think he is probably the surest out of the 5.
I'm just saying if the Titans take one of these at #3, they'd be getting #1 talent. I try to look at the glass as half full.Soxcat said:
And be sure to look at the team who made the pick. Many times, they were not the best front offices in the league for a reason.
Then what criteria makes a QB in your book? I think you have to look at the total picture. Arm strength, leadership, making good decisions, etc.
I'm not a fan of evaluating QB talent based solely on arm strength.
And he was taken #1 in the draft for that reason.
All I am saying is that I feel both Young and Leinart are #1 talent and about as good a risk of taking a QB as you get in this league. What makes it better is we get it with the third pick.
RollTide said:
If the OL for the Bengals had made a block on the guy (I forget their names, but it's really not important) that just tore Carson Palmer's knee, they wouldn't be facing the prospect of perhaps losing one the top 5 young qb's of all time right now. But he did miss the block and now they are facing that prospect. So how is OL not an impact position ?
No one is saying LT is not an impact position. But when you look at the overall impact of a player on a team's success, it's hard to argue any position is more important than the QB.
I think this can over inflate the value of QBs in the draft.
Also, remember that the NFL is a business. How much star power does a QB have over a LT? Yes, that does come into play whether or not an owner wants to admit it.
I think this can over inflate the value of QBs in the draft.
Also, remember that the NFL is a business. How much star power does a QB have over a LT? Yes, that does come into play whether or not an owner wants to admit it.
TitanJeff said:
and I'm not a fan of evaluating QB talent based solely on the winning percentage of his team during his tenure - unless he was directly influential in those wins.
I believe that Vince was more responsible in Texan wins than Leinart was for USC wins.
TitanJeff said:
In the end, winning games sells WAY more tickets than the short term playoff of making a crowd-pleasing pick. I don't think any smart FO would make a decision to appease the masses (who usually don't know what it takes to win football games).
Bottom line, Young, Leinhart, Bush, even Ferguson, we will be getting a player that NO one can say was a reach or a bad value. There is no such thing as a lock in the draft. Doesn't happen. Period. Of course, if we draft the second coming of JC, you still will have someone say "yeah, he can walk on water, but can he throw it 60 yards?"
With all things being equal, you take the player who is going to put butts in the seats.Titans2008 said:
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