Is it me or do we keep adding talent to the D but they look the same...BAD!
My ONLY hope is that Fisher is keeping things 'vanilla' in order to compare players in like situations. However, all players getting beat doesn't give you much to compare!
And I'm already seeing the same bad coaching on D...bad tackling and bad angles. When is this gonna stop?
If the D is not vastly improved from last season, the DC (at minimum) needs to get the ax! It's not like we have a dirth of talent on D and short of catestrophic injuries, any worse than 16th on D = bad DC!
On the other hand, a bad D will equals a lot of losses and a lot of VY. It probably would also equal the end of the Fisher era.
That was an embarassing performance against the Broncos!
Gut
My ONLY hope is that Fisher is keeping things 'vanilla' in order to compare players in like situations. However, all players getting beat doesn't give you much to compare!
And I'm already seeing the same bad coaching on D...bad tackling and bad angles. When is this gonna stop?
If the D is not vastly improved from last season, the DC (at minimum) needs to get the ax! It's not like we have a dirth of talent on D and short of catestrophic injuries, any worse than 16th on D = bad DC!
On the other hand, a bad D will equals a lot of losses and a lot of VY. It probably would also equal the end of the Fisher era.
That was an embarassing performance against the Broncos!
Gut
Amen, the highlight point for me was when Nash was tearing us up. That was embarassing.
The Titans clearly didn't match up well against the Broncos. I don't see this on Schwartz.
I place the bulk of this on inferior talent or experience at DL against one of the top OLs in the game. Starks isn't showing the development many hoped he would. Clauss is limited. Mahelona is a rookie. Odom went out. LaBoy couldn't start. Shobel should be cut and KVB simply wasn't very effective.
Sirmon may not be able to shed blocks and have the impact the Titans need in the middle either. But I'll hold judgement because the Broncos OL will make many mediocre defenses look foolish this season.
I'm hoping it was a wet field, wrong cleats, bad plane food or something else besides just inferior talent on the Titans D that created the disaster we witnessed last Saturday. Hopefully, Reese spent some time this weekend looking for DL talent he can bring in off the wire.
I place the bulk of this on inferior talent or experience at DL against one of the top OLs in the game. Starks isn't showing the development many hoped he would. Clauss is limited. Mahelona is a rookie. Odom went out. LaBoy couldn't start. Shobel should be cut and KVB simply wasn't very effective.
Sirmon may not be able to shed blocks and have the impact the Titans need in the middle either. But I'll hold judgement because the Broncos OL will make many mediocre defenses look foolish this season.
I'm hoping it was a wet field, wrong cleats, bad plane food or something else besides just inferior talent on the Titans D that created the disaster we witnessed last Saturday. Hopefully, Reese spent some time this weekend looking for DL talent he can bring in off the wire.
TitanJeff said:
Come on TJ- I'll buy their first team is better than ours. But their 2nd and at time 3rd team was cutting our "1st-2nd" team apart. There is a problem.
That was an uncoordinated defensive effort for 60 minutes. No prep, no plan, no adjustments in the game. The same style of defense for the past 2 years- no progress/improvement. The players are going banannas. There IS a coaching problem.
Fisher needs to let the fraternity stuff go and get Schwartz out of there.
The Broncos ran PA and Bootleg after Bootleg and there was never an adjustment to stop it, that lies directly on the play calling. You could look at the players and tell they had no fire under them. Havent we been seeing that the last few years on D , along with poor tackling and blown coverages?
Just go back and watch the game when Schwartz is talking to his players, you can tell by the looks on their face they dont respect him. And if they dont have respect for him they defiantly arent going to buy into what he is selling or play hard for him.
Then Chris Hope talked about how they had a bad practice and were flat, and in his opinion parctice should have been started over, but it wasnt and it carried over into the game. I just want to know how long this has to go on before Schwartz's head or anyone else's is gonna roll.
Just go back and watch the game when Schwartz is talking to his players, you can tell by the looks on their face they dont respect him. And if they dont have respect for him they defiantly arent going to buy into what he is selling or play hard for him.
Then Chris Hope talked about how they had a bad practice and were flat, and in his opinion parctice should have been started over, but it wasnt and it carried over into the game. I just want to know how long this has to go on before Schwartz's head or anyone else's is gonna roll.
I didn't see their second and third team on the field while our entire first team was playing.Riverman said:
I'm not making excuses. There is a problem. But it's because the Broncos OL was superior to what the Titans put on the field at DL. You don't think Haynesworth makes a difference? Even with Haynesworth, the Broncos are a top five NFL team.
What adjunstments are you guys asking for? The first team defense was not the one who came out to play the second half. I don't think we'll see everyone bite on the bootleg when the games count. I don't see this as a coaching issue.
The Titans defense was simply overpowered playing straight-up, vanilla football. That should be the concern here, IMO.
The Titans defense was simply overpowered playing straight-up, vanilla football. That should be the concern here, IMO.
TitanJeff said:
Are you suggesting we were overpowered, "out-talented", in every match-up? Surely you'd agree this unit played without a "coordinated" effort. Blown assignments, poor reads, poor execution. Many of the missed assignments were due to frustrated vets trying to make plays on the other side of field. The concerning issue is that this is the same (only worse) faults we've seen over the past 2 years.
This is not a cohesive unit. At least 5 of these individuals all have the talent and capacity to be pro-bowl caliber but they look like chumps out there. I don't see how you can assign the responsibility of the REPEATEDLY dismal performance over the past couple of years to the only constant-COACHING.
Jeff, did it seem to you that in the beginning of the game, when it was mostly starters, that the Broncos couldn't help but score? They made it look so easy. It really was scary. It looked like some of the worst stuff from the past two seasons. Most of all, what really shakes me is this often mentioned point of the players appartent apathy and lack of respect they seemed to show JS when he was speaking to them. I tried not to think alot of it at the time, though it did raise an eyebrow, but now that others are harping on it I'm even more concerned now. It just looks as if JS has lost the team... I am not very hopeful at all at this point. The remedy is destroying Atlanta, but they are licking their own wounds at the moment so we are sure to see two very bitter and angry teams Saturday.
No. But collectively, yes. And I wouldn't expect the game to play out the same in the regular season either.Riverman said:
I agree the defense was blown off the football far too often. I'm not trying to make any excuses but I am also not going to write off the season after ONE preseason game.
"Capacity"? Every play on the field has "capacity". Beside Bulluck, I don't think we have anyone who we can say is Pro-Bowl caliber. KVB needs to put two seasons together. Haynesworth needs to be on the field. Pacman needs some experience. Who else do you put in that group?
It was a pitiful effort. But I don't see it as a total reflection of what we'll see when the games count.
I would rather be optimistic and hope this was a coaching problem. If the difference in talent was that much, like an NFL team against a High School team we are in big trouble. You have to admit that the coaching on the Broncos is far superior especially on the offensive side of the ball. Heimy must have been licking his chops getting the opportunity to make a fool out of Jimmy.
By the way, Denver doesn't have one OL that went to the pro-bowl. Although they are good it isn't like we were playing against Willie Roaf and Orlando Pace in their prime at all 5 postions although that is what it looked like. Also their second best WR is holding out. If that were the Titans Fish would be making all kinds of excuses for the poor performance including not having their best tandem of WRs.
Heck we cut a guy for having a bad attitude, work ethic and out of shape and all he does is look like Walter Payton against us. The UDFA looked like Eric Dickerson. Boy, I'm glad we drafted Ganther.
By the way, Denver doesn't have one OL that went to the pro-bowl. Although they are good it isn't like we were playing against Willie Roaf and Orlando Pace in their prime at all 5 postions although that is what it looked like. Also their second best WR is holding out. If that were the Titans Fish would be making all kinds of excuses for the poor performance including not having their best tandem of WRs.
Heck we cut a guy for having a bad attitude, work ethic and out of shape and all he does is look like Walter Payton against us. The UDFA looked like Eric Dickerson. Boy, I'm glad we drafted Ganther.
If it is a coaching problem, it begins with Fisher who controls everything on down to Washburn if we are talking about the DL here which was my main area of concern.
The Broncos are known for having one of the best OLs in the league. Maybe they are not Pro Bowlers individually but, as as unit, they make average RBs look great. After seeing Nash up close, do you honestly think he's as good as what we saw in that game?
I'm not ready to point the finger at one player or coach for the performance we saw. Fans look for a scapegoat when there are a number of factors involved.
The Broncos are known for having one of the best OLs in the league. Maybe they are not Pro Bowlers individually but, as as unit, they make average RBs look great. After seeing Nash up close, do you honestly think he's as good as what we saw in that game?
I'm not ready to point the finger at one player or coach for the performance we saw. Fans look for a scapegoat when there are a number of factors involved.
TitanJeff said:
Well, this fan is looking for responsibility. I certainly don't hold one person ENTIRELY responsible for a team (or unit)'s poor play. However, the buck does have to stop somewhere and I'd rather see Schwartz than Fisher take responsibility for the defense's poor play. Ultimately, I agree that Fisher is the top of the responsibility ladder and if he doesn't see fit make necessary changes then he too should suffer the consequences. I just think he is a much better Head Coach than Schwartz is a defensive coordinator.
Also, I didn't see players walking away from Fisher in mid-sentence or rolling their eyes at him during a conversation.
I think it is important for everyone involved in the process to step up. I don't see much benefit of giving lip service to a situation without doing anything about it. It reminds me of Fisher's "no tolerance" policy yet he didn't say anything that I can recall when the next Titans got a DUI. It'll take both players and coaches stepping up.Riverman said:
How so? Honestly, ask yourself what makes Fisher a good head coach. Is it the X's and O's? Nothing I've seen in the last few seasons indicates to me he's strong in that area. Is it that he's a coach the team really wants to play hard for? That effort we saw Saturday night sure wasn't an indication of it.
I like Fisher. But I think his strength is his relationship with the public and the media and isn't getting the most out of inferior talent. No coach, especially one with his recent record, should be beyond criticism. And that includes everyone from Fisher on down. That's why I think Fisher is on the hot seat.
I didn't see this happen to Schwartz but, regardless, it all comes down from Fisher. I don't see Schwartz, Chow, Washburn, McGinnis or Fisher earning their paychecks right now based on Saturday's game but it was only one game. The Titans blow out the Falcons next weekend and it'll be forgotten.
To anyone who wants to fire Schwartz today, tell me a better solution. Will it keep Sirmon from being knocked five yard out of the hole this season? Will it make Clauss or Starks a stud? Give me a quick fix. I sure don't see any.
Hopefully, players get/stay healthy and begin living up to their potential. A waiver wire addition or two may help as well. But unless Fisher wants to step in as DC, nothing will get fixed until after end of the season. And if nothing gets fixed on defense, Fisher won't be around anyway.
These coaches, along with some players, need to think about this next game as if it was their last because I see some wholesale changes coming if we get another repeat of the '04 and '05 seasons.
for the first time, i'm worried it is our DC
this is the first time I am worried that our defensive problems are the result of our defensive coordinator...
we have always been pretty vanilla, IMO, even in the regular season.
what I saw in the denver game was just horrible. And the biggest weakness was our Dline (with sirmon, thompson, and hill next...)
the posters that say are anti-schwartz are starting to convince me we need someone else...
this is the first time I am worried that our defensive problems are the result of our defensive coordinator...
we have always been pretty vanilla, IMO, even in the regular season.
what I saw in the denver game was just horrible. And the biggest weakness was our Dline (with sirmon, thompson, and hill next...)
the posters that say are anti-schwartz are starting to convince me we need someone else...
I agree completely.
Agreed. Past two seasons have been exceptionally poor, Fisher ultimately responsible. But IMO, our defense, not offense has lost the games. It appears to me that Schwartz has lost the respect of his defensive players. He doesn't inspire confidence or respect in his media performances either. Ask Damien Nash and the O unit if Fisher F's around. Let's see what he does with the line this week. Maybe Fisher needs to get more involved in the defense again. Fisher's weakest link as a HC appears to me to be his DC.
I don't care what the final score is, I'm only concerned that we have a solid performance by our first teams. So, I won't forget about it if our 1st team runs it up against Atlanta's scrubs.
Although we ran a vanilla D in the Denver game, we should at least be trying some blitz packages. Last season, we didn't blitz effectively at all. I think this is what has alot of people concerned.
That's why we have Hope, Thornton, Mawae and Givens. If we wholesale change the coaching staff, say hello to 2-3 more "re-building" years. That may be what has to happen anyway. Find the right Defensive guy, we're back in business next year.
TitanJeff said:
Seems like in your previous post you wanted to put most of the blame on Fisher which is fine with me. After all the buck stops with the head coach.
Still, if this team is so bad that we can't put our finger on any one concern but need to accept the fact there are "a number of factors involved" then we are almost hopeless. That means we have crappy coaching to go along with lousy talent on the field. I still think good coaching would get more out of the guys we have than we are getting. Hope and Thornton are now all of a sudden sucky players? Heck, if Brown was on Denver he would be preparing himself for a trip to the pro-bowl. Are those guys that good or is it coaching?
I wonder if we would see that kind of pathetic performance if the same talent was playing in New England.
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