I didn't see the game, so I really can't comment on the performance. But I can comment on the extraordinary "apologeticness" of the statements TJ. If we take away the other plays that the Falcons scored on, we would have won the game also.
I really want to be positive and upbeat but it is very hard to do when the team appears to be in disarray. I agree the OL and DL are the weakness of the team. A torn biceps is often a season ending injury. It appears it should be in this case b/c Pillar can't get the job done without holding. Coaches should recognize this.
1 TD in 3 games because we're only using "60%" of our offense? I just don't want to hear any more excuses or "reasons". I want to see improvement- verified by statistics. I'd like to start by seeing us SHUT DOWN THE RUN! I don't care if we lose every game if we can stop giving up over 150 yards per game (or half!).
1st string D was allright, but just like the offense they made no plays:
No INTs, no FF's, no sacks!
No INTs, no FF's, no sacks!
I think you needed to see this game in order to note the difference between the game in Denver and what we saw Saturday night. Beyond the one meltdown, I thought the first team D did okay against a potent offense. All those stats after halftime are meaningless, IMO.Riverman said:
I don't think anyone should be upbeat right now. There is plenty of reason for concern. But I'm not ready to drink the koolaid yet.
Thornton had a sack in the first series of the game.4andershv said:
You love Gregg Williams, right? He'd have this Titans defense making a statement, right?MsTitan said:
Williams' loaded defense gave up 41 points last Saturday and nearly 500 yards of offense. In the first half, his starting D gave up 228 yards and 20 points to the Pats.
Or let's look at the previous week and the 27 points he gave up to the Jets which included 17 points, 177 total yards and 145 rushing yards in the first half.
Point being, if you want to draw conclusions on Schwartz and THIS SEASON'S Titans defense based on preseason play, why would anyone want Williams instead? We'd be crucifying Schwartz today if the Titans lost to the Falcons 41-0.
I wouldn't judge Schwartz any more for what we've seen than I would Williams.
It sounds like the first team had a better showing- I wish I had seen it. I was in St. Louis-no luck finding it. I agree about the stats except the first half stats were completely unimpressive. I think we had given 100 yards to one running back. I understand he broke a big one, but still that is a testament to what we're not doing.
We've got to do better stopping the run. This has been going on for almost 3 years now.
TitanJeff said:
Blown blocking assignment. The guard didn't even look at him. Keith Bulluck audibled into that defense when he saw 5 wide come out, so it was a good adjustment by him, Thorton just did what anybody who comes free should do, and that's sack the QB, even if it was MV, the most elusive QB in the game......next to VY
)It was a big play. And Vick rolled out to Schobel's side three times for big gains. I'm not sugarcoating the situation because that one big run was enough, in itself, to win the game.Riverman said:
But you remove the big run along with the Vick scrambles and the Titans gave up just over four yards a carry and just about shut down the passing game.
Point being, they were not consistently bad the first half like we saw in Denver.
TitanJeff said:
By that account it is reasonable to expect better from the starting D-line. Blown LB assignment on the big run?
TitanJeff said:
Biggest difference is still that Gregg Williams hasn't had a defence that sucked for years. If he had he would be in the same boat as Jimbo.
Just out of curiosity, how far along in the season will you excuse Schwartz if the defence doesn't improve?
The Titans D has been abused throughout the preseason on the QB rollback. Hopefully, LaBoy does a better job until Odom can make the return. Schobel hasn't shown me anything yet.Riverman said:
I do love Gregg Williams. I am a Gregg Williams or (hard hitting defense groupie). I would love to have him back and yes I think our defense would make a statement.TitanJeff said:
They gave up 500 yards? What can I say it's preseason. By the way if our defense didn't play in the regular season like it was preseason then I could say the same for Schwartz (It's just preseason). The problem is the defense, preseason or not, looks like the same crap I have seen for the past few years. I not giving him a pass because preseason defense or regular season it doesn't matter. The result is the same.
He's also not had the lack of talent, experience and injury factors the Titans have either the last two seasons.Vigsted said:
If the team stays healthy, I want to see steady improvement throughout the season. With the talent the Titans brought in, along with more experience for the young guys, anything close to what we saw in '04 and '05 isn't acceptable. I am hoping this defense comes together to one which ends the season around #15. If that was to happen, I think the Titans D will be ready to make the move back to the top ten in '07.
TJ, you're usually right, or confident enough in your answers to make us THINK that you are, but if this was just some fluke preseason thing it wouldn't hold as much merit. The simple fact is that this has been going on for more than 3 years, and we have yet to see a drastic change in attitude and aggressiveness, even considering we've added more talent, which by the way is a cop-out. I guess we still don't have enough talent?? how many more players do we need to draft and free agents do we need to sign only to have people look at the talent level and not the coaching. One thing is for certain, every player who is drafted is a superior athlete, given the few freaks like Reggie Bush, Vince Young and Jevon Kearse, so as far as talent goes, we have just as stocked a roster as any other team in the NFL. How we use it, or don't is up to us. Gregg Williams doesn't have half the high picks we do, but will get his defense to be top 5 again, because he recognizes their strengths and weaknesses, and puts them in a position to succed, by taking away the run first. "Once you make a team one dimensional, they can only beat you one way; if you don't, they not only control what they do on offense, but what YOU do on defense" Gregg Williams as the head coach in Buffalo in '03.
I would just love to see Schwartz get fired and what anyone else could do with this defense, I would marvel at the way they played differently without the "chains" on.
I would just love to see Schwartz get fired and what anyone else could do with this defense, I would marvel at the way they played differently without the "chains" on.
If it is all about Schwartz, explain the '03 Titans defense.Jwill1919 said:
Such as? Tell me who the Titans have drafted since '03 who has been productive. Williams? Woolfolk? Gardner? Boiman? Calmus? Beckham? Echols? Starks? Long? Odom? LaBoy? Schobel?
And how about those free agents? Thompson? Reese hit a home run with KVB but it's too early to judge Hope and Thornton though both appear to be solid so far.
During that time span, the Titans lost Kearse, Rolle, Dyson, Carter, and Schulters. Do you not see a significant dropoff in talent from '03?
I disagree. Do you see any players leaving this system and thriving anywhere else?
TitanJeff said:
If it isn't Schwartz, then explain the last 3 years under this defense. In '03, Schwartz was handed the defense built from the ground up, he couldn't screw that defense up enough to make a significant change, but in the sucessive years he has. You couldn't change the attitude that Williams instilled overnight, it has taken 3 long years to bottom out.
Thank you for giving me that list of draft picks, Woolfolk, Odom, Starks, and Laboy, Calmus, Tank were all very successful college football players and showed a ton of upside from the minute they stepped on the field. Have they gotten any better or been utilized any more than when they were green rookies? no, Gregg Williams turned Perry Phoenix, John Thornton, Robaire Smith, Joe Sal'avea, Josh Evans, just to name a few into players that exceeded expectations. Can you say the same about any player drafted that has even MET expectations? Haynesworth is the only one close, and he is still disappointing us each year.
Free agents? "Hope and Thornton appear to solid so far". Chris Hope and David Thornton have already been successful in their NFL careers, Hope already sounds frustrated with the way the defensive practices have been run and the lack of fire.
During that time span of the great Defensive losses. Remember that Kearse was not the same player after his broken foot, he was in and out of the lineup with Samari all the time, I was always reading about how much of a liability Lance was in coverage and wouldn't hit people because of his incessant shoulder separation, Dyson was average and a liability too, and wasn't any better than Reynaldo Hill, Carter was a beast and kept the DLine honest. We never had serious issues when plugging players in at these spots in the past because even our backups were coddled and not isolated to be taken advantage of(product of good coaching, disquise your weaknesses).
As for you're last question, no, I don't see any of these players leaving and being successful anywhere else, but I did have a good feeling about Tank, and if and when Woolfolk gets moved, I think he will be a quality player in this league. Most of the time, the players that leave this system are so shattered, their confidence has totally left them, that they might as well pack it in anyways. Look at the careers of the Titans defenders, would you pay good money for anyone who has been beaten mentally practice after practice and no longer has any fire to play a position at which this is the one vital ingredient?
Uh, Schwartz was made the DC in January 2001.Jwill1919 said:
The '02 Titans D finished in the top 10 and was a top three D the final 11 games. Most of it was without Kearse.
In '03, Schwartz's D led the league in rush defense and third-down defense.
And let's look at the Titans D during that final Williams season where they were the league's best. One of the best parts was that the 2000 Titans D ranked #1 in the league on third-down efficiency at 30.8%.
Guess who coordinated the Titans D third-down packages that season?
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