So who deserves the most blame???
Coverage?
Pass rush?
Or coaching?
Coverage?
Pass rush?
Or coaching?
Agreed. I’m usually of the opinion that position coaches don’t make a difference unless they are bad. But it’s clear our secondary doesn’t have the same mentality now.
Wish Vrabel would have offered Coombs the DC job here.
Seems like all of the above.
Considering Rashaan Evans is our best cover player by passer rating this year I’m gonna say coverage. That’s what my eyes see as well when watching games. These stats seem to back that up.
That being said, all 3 HAVE to be better going forward. Most super bowl caliber team we maybe have ever had or at least had in a long time. No excuses anymore. Just time to figure it out.
Yep. Bengals O line is bad and beat up. Time to take some chances in the secondary and let the pass rushers make an impact.
Hopefully the 2nd half built up some confidence in some of our guys and we can build off that.
Yes.
Yes.
He addresses both, which is correct. Lack of pass rush without a blitz and extra players sent.
As we looked at the Pittsburgh game, the reason their D is so successful is they don’t need to send extra blitzers, they get pressure with their front four.
Kind of proves my point about some marginal DBs as well. Joe Haden was good for a few years but his best days have passed and Fitzpatrick is a good safety but otherwise their secondary success is based on their pass rush abilities to rush QB and force bad throws.
I also agree with the free releases and playing off the lines being an issue, that is a play calling issue. Vrabel (or Bowen) is not putting his CB in a position to show they can play better, so while I’d love to trade for Gilmore (other thread), I see it as being a waste based on Defensive “strategy”.
My other point was that the only bright side to our current DB issues, is AJ25 returning should improve the secondary overall. Butler, AJ and Byard is pretty solid comparatively around the league.
On the DL, paperwise, clowney, Beasley, Simmons, Jones should be good but Beasley and Clowney have either underperformed or are highly overrated.
Literally what I’ve been saying this entire time. DB’s gotta step up for the pass rush to be more effective. Glad to see you agree when someone else says it. I guess you just don’t want to admit to agreeing with me.
Y’all remember this 3rd down conversion? I know it was like a 12-13 yard gain. Ben gets rid of this ball in under 3 seconds but Clowney beats a double team and is quite literally split second away from a sack.
If Ben can throw it in under 3 seconds on a 12 yard pass. Imagine how quick the ball gets out on a 5 yard pass.
If Ben can throw it in under 3 seconds on a 12 yard pass. Imagine how quick the ball gets out on a 5 yard pass.
I also believe inside rush/collapsing the pocket helps your ends and corners get the QB. I’ve seen a lot of times that we blow past opposing QB’s because they just step right up in the pocket. Add the nice buffer our CB’s are giving and we don’t stand a chance....Any good D coordinator would see that.
I’m not agreeing that the pass rush improves when they play on the line. I think the pass rush is still a major issue (bigger than the secondary) regardless where the DBs line up.
I am in agreement that the DBs currently being put in the field can be upgraded. AJ25 is a great start.
Lol ah so you are letting your hate for Clowney and Beasley cloud your judgment then. And now it makes sense as to why you’re being so stubborn. Even though I’ve shown you plays, stats, and other opinions that all back up my stance. Yet, you’ve just refused to believe it and continue to use the same 2 stats (sacks and pressure) to counter the argument. Even though it’s been explained why those are low.
Pretty sure I’ve shown enough to say our pass rush sucks.
I honestly don’t care who the pass rusher is. Have no more beef with clowney and Beasley than I do the previous 10 pass rushers we’ve had that aren’t good at pass rush.
I also pointed out in the other thread (trying to keep this thread reasonable) that 3 years ago when we had a healthy Butler, Jackson and Ryan that our secondary was towards the top of the league in almost every category but our pass rush still sucked.
That’s the entire thing, we can keep upgrading DB all day but until either Clowney/Beasley start producing or we get pass rush upgrades, this D is still gonna struggle against teams like KC, which happens to be THE team to beat right now.
No you actually said we had the best secondary in the league that year. But you actually mean 2 years ago because this is Butler's 3rd year with the team.
You are also failing to compare our pass rushers that year with who we have this year.
You haven't done enough to prove the pass rush sucks. You've just been repeating that and saying it's valid because of sacks and QB pressures. Totally ignoring everything else that has been posted to counter that argument.
I'll ask this question directly to you so you can't ignore it anymore. Why are the Titans top 3 in the NFL in QB knockdown % (and total knockdowns) if the pass rush sucks? Titans were dead last in 2019 and 25th in 2018 with the "best secondary in the league."
Here's the link:
2020 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Well if pass rush is supposed to get sacks, hurries and pressures and they fail at all 3, are you telling me the pass rush is fine?
2018 season (2/3 seasons however you look at it, you knew exactly what I was talking about), arguably the best secondary in the league.
As far as knock downs, it clearly isn’t producing anything so who cares? They aren’t hurrying the QB, they aren’t sacking the QB, they aren’t pressuring the QB, so what does a knock down do?
“Dead last in 2019 and 25th in 2018” at what? What stat are you referencing here for the secondary?
Me too. I was hoping he would have a bigger role. We clearly need improvement on the Defensive side of the ball in play calling and planning.
Vrabel needs to cal Dan Pees and beg him to come help him figure things out
Pees probably can’t look at the games on 3rd down now.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
