Jesus vs. Republican Jesus
I saw this pic on a blog a while back. I thought it was fairly accurate and fitting. I have no problem with Jesus. Although highly unlikely, he could exist, but that's not what this thread is about.
About a week or two ago, I attended an Easter service with my grandmother. I typically stay away from churches because I disagree with them. Since my grandmother invited me, I decided to go with her because I knew it would make her happy.
It was one of those fancy, ritzy, churches that seats several thousand people. The pastor gave the Easter sermon and just as when anyone speaks, I respectfully listened, but personally disagreed with much of what he is saying.
First thing he said was, "How's that hope and change working out for ya?"
I had to pinch myself to ensure I was at a place of worship, and not a Republican rally.
After slamming the "Administration" for socialism, he then dropped another bomb on the crowd and I couldn't believe that almost everyone in the auditorium began nodding in agreement.
He says, "The scholars and scholarly types of people don't know what they are talking about half the time, and they just regurgitate information that they read in a book."
I thought to myself, isn't that what you are doing with the Bible? Regurgitating information from an allegory that can be interpreted a million different ways and none of those ways correspond with science or the scientific method. Atleast scholars have science on thier side and you have faith, "Faith is the evidence of things hoped for, but not seen" Heb 11:1
This is one of the reasons I don't like church. I have no problem with the idea of Jesus, but when you start making statements like that, in a forum where you can't be rebuked, you can begin to influence the sheeple into buying into your agenda (or consquently face eternal damnation) thus, those checks keep getting dropped in those purple velvet offering bags, which keep the lights on in your building. If there isn't a boogie man, the checks stop getting cut every sunday. (i.e. The Devil)
In order to try to understand how Christianity and Conservatism correlate with each other, I sat down this weekend and watched an episode of Glenn Beck.
What do you know... Glenn had invited NYU Young Republicans into his studio for a Town Hall type of discussion.
The name of special was "Time to be heard" and here is a link to something I found on Fox News in regards to the special.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,590743,00.html
Here is a small excerpt from where I began watching as I was channel surfing:
Seriously? I have to call BS on this. I've never ONCE had a professor (or had a professor make me watch a video) that tells me that capitalism is bad or even say anything remotely close to this. Flat out lies. At this point, I have to ask myself if this is scripted, because it seemed like this was almost an informercial on why Fox News should be the defacto indoctrination resource for all of America. (Scary huh)
The whole time, I noticed how Glenn Beck walks, talks, and acts like a tele-evangelist however he isn't preaching the Gospel. He's preaching neo-conservatism and anti-intellectualism.
So let me ask you this... Why do I have to be a moron to be a Christian and a Conservative? Why does higher education disagree with the core principles of conservatism? If Christians and Conservatives had it their way, 100% of America would never seek education past high school, work in a factory their entire lives, and give their money to churches and only watch fox news. If you look back in history, you will see that this isn't a new phenomenon. Infact, about 1,000 years of time and potential innovation was wasted because of this vicious cycle. It was called the dark ages! But remember, the "scholarly types" (The same ones responsible for bringing civilization out of the Dark ages) are the problem.
I saw this pic on a blog a while back. I thought it was fairly accurate and fitting. I have no problem with Jesus. Although highly unlikely, he could exist, but that's not what this thread is about.
About a week or two ago, I attended an Easter service with my grandmother. I typically stay away from churches because I disagree with them. Since my grandmother invited me, I decided to go with her because I knew it would make her happy.
It was one of those fancy, ritzy, churches that seats several thousand people. The pastor gave the Easter sermon and just as when anyone speaks, I respectfully listened, but personally disagreed with much of what he is saying.
First thing he said was, "How's that hope and change working out for ya?"
I had to pinch myself to ensure I was at a place of worship, and not a Republican rally.
After slamming the "Administration" for socialism, he then dropped another bomb on the crowd and I couldn't believe that almost everyone in the auditorium began nodding in agreement.
He says, "The scholars and scholarly types of people don't know what they are talking about half the time, and they just regurgitate information that they read in a book."
I thought to myself, isn't that what you are doing with the Bible? Regurgitating information from an allegory that can be interpreted a million different ways and none of those ways correspond with science or the scientific method. Atleast scholars have science on thier side and you have faith, "Faith is the evidence of things hoped for, but not seen" Heb 11:1
This is one of the reasons I don't like church. I have no problem with the idea of Jesus, but when you start making statements like that, in a forum where you can't be rebuked, you can begin to influence the sheeple into buying into your agenda (or consquently face eternal damnation) thus, those checks keep getting dropped in those purple velvet offering bags, which keep the lights on in your building. If there isn't a boogie man, the checks stop getting cut every sunday. (i.e. The Devil)
In order to try to understand how Christianity and Conservatism correlate with each other, I sat down this weekend and watched an episode of Glenn Beck.
What do you know... Glenn had invited NYU Young Republicans into his studio for a Town Hall type of discussion.
The name of special was "Time to be heard" and here is a link to something I found on Fox News in regards to the special.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,590743,00.html
Here is a small excerpt from where I began watching as I was channel surfing:
Seriously? I have to call BS on this. I've never ONCE had a professor (or had a professor make me watch a video) that tells me that capitalism is bad or even say anything remotely close to this. Flat out lies. At this point, I have to ask myself if this is scripted, because it seemed like this was almost an informercial on why Fox News should be the defacto indoctrination resource for all of America. (Scary huh)
The whole time, I noticed how Glenn Beck walks, talks, and acts like a tele-evangelist however he isn't preaching the Gospel. He's preaching neo-conservatism and anti-intellectualism.
So let me ask you this... Why do I have to be a moron to be a Christian and a Conservative? Why does higher education disagree with the core principles of conservatism? If Christians and Conservatives had it their way, 100% of America would never seek education past high school, work in a factory their entire lives, and give their money to churches and only watch fox news. If you look back in history, you will see that this isn't a new phenomenon. Infact, about 1,000 years of time and potential innovation was wasted because of this vicious cycle. It was called the dark ages! But remember, the "scholarly types" (The same ones responsible for bringing civilization out of the Dark ages) are the problem.
Your knowledge of Christianity and Conservatism is severely limited.
Edit: These two terms are not synonymous. One of the major problems with so-called "Christians" today is that they equate political ideals with Christianity (same goes for those who share Erick's feelings).
Edit: These two terms are not synonymous. One of the major problems with so-called "Christians" today is that they equate political ideals with Christianity (same goes for those who share Erick's feelings).
What is so intellectual about liberals?
An obsession about how much money someone has and the desire to use government as an instrument of theft is intellectual?
Are those women in Detroit who were talking about Obama's stash intellectuals?
Are people in prison and inner city housing projects intellectuals?
What would Jesus think of planned parenthood? 2/3 of black children being born to single parent families?
10th commandment from Exodus:
Isn't that the heart of liberal thinking? Wanting, obsessing about something you did not earn? Something that doesn't belong to you? How was Bill clinton and John Edwards with coveting thy neighbors wife and not bearing false witness?
Didn't Paul in Timothy write that those who don't work will not eat?
You honestly want to use bible passages to prove liberal points? Was Jesus an atheist?
An obsession about how much money someone has and the desire to use government as an instrument of theft is intellectual?
Are those women in Detroit who were talking about Obama's stash intellectuals?
Are people in prison and inner city housing projects intellectuals?
What would Jesus think of planned parenthood? 2/3 of black children being born to single parent families?
10th commandment from Exodus:
Isn't that the heart of liberal thinking? Wanting, obsessing about something you did not earn? Something that doesn't belong to you? How was Bill clinton and John Edwards with coveting thy neighbors wife and not bearing false witness?
Didn't Paul in Timothy write that those who don't work will not eat?
You honestly want to use bible passages to prove liberal points? Was Jesus an atheist?
i'm pretty sure that's the basis of capitalism.
I beg your pardon. I went to a private Christian school from Kindergarten until I was in 10th grade. I can recite Bible verses in my sleep. I took classes in college on the Apostle Paul and the New Testament at a public university here in Kentucky. They were electives that I took to gain more understanding.
I tried watching Glenn Beck, as noted above. I've tried watching Fox News. Does GB and FNC hinder my ability to understand conservatism?
Instead of being condescending and holier than thou... Why don't you stand up for what you believe in?
Really explain that to me. Apparently you are clueless about what capitalism is.
LOL This post above doesn't answer my question at all:
So let me ask you this... Why do I have to be a moron to be a Christian and a Conservative? Why does higher education disagree with the core principles of conservatism? If Christians and Conservatives had it their way, 100% of America would never seek education past high school, work in a factory their entire lives, and give their money to churches and only watch fox news. If you look back in history, you will see that this isn't a new phenomenon. Infact, about 1,000 years of time and potential innovation was wasted because of this vicious cycle. It was called the dark ages! But remember, the "scholarly types" (The same ones responsible for bringing civilization out of the Dark ages) are the problem.
Probably so. Glenn Beck is an entertainer and FNC is, well, a news channel.
Not being either. I just don't have the time right now to go through the Bible with you to help you understand what a Christian really is and looks like. The pictures that the 'right' and 'left' draw of Jesus and His followers are pretty distorted and incompatible with Scripture.
What is so intellectual about conservatives?
An obsession about how much faith someone has and the desire to use church as an instrument of fundraising is intellectual?
(Tounge in Cheek) Is Glenn Beck an intellectual? LOL
Are people in churches and trailer parks intellectuals?
What would Jesus think of the war in Iraq? Millions of dead arabs, because George Bush said "God Speaks Through Him"
The pot calling the kettle black? Thou shalt not covet apparently doesn't apply to oil fields in Iraq.
Yeah, let's go by what Timothy has to say:
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 1 Timothy 2:12
Let's fire all of our teachers.
Can you not read? Maybe a little intellectualism would help you. Perhaps, hooked on phonics. I used Heb 11:1 in my post, to illustrate what "Faith" is. The cartoon above was just an illustration of the contrast of "Republican Jesus" and what Jesus actually said.
So now that you have dodged my question. Maybe you can answer it:
Why do I have to be a moron to be a Christian and a Conservative? Why does higher education disagree with the core principles of conservatism? If Christians and Conservatives had it their way, 100% of America would never seek education past high school, work in a factory their entire lives, and give their money to churches and only watch fox news. If you look back in history, you will see that this isn't a new phenomenon. Infact, about 1,000 years of time and potential innovation was wasted because of this vicious cycle. It was called the dark ages! But remember, the "scholarly types" (The same ones responsible for bringing civilization out of the Dark ages) are the problem.
coveting thy neighbor's goods is what keeps the economy going.
That's beside the point. I know what the Bible and the churches in the Bible Belt say. Based on science and understanding, I think most of it is bunk and a ploy to get your money.
After all:
The point is.. Why is intellectualism frowned upon by Conservatives and Christians? Why do they make it a point to disregard professors and scholars before they try to deliver their message? What do conservatives and christians have against intellectualism? Perhaps it undermines everything they are about to tell you.
Conservatives and Christians hate taxes... but don't hesitate to give 10% of their income to a church that REDISTRIBUTES the money to poor hungry people and homeless shelters.
Simple: it impedes their ability to make money.
Churches need 10% of all the income in the room on any given Sunday to deliver their message and fight the Enemy. I do believe that most churches and pastors are pretty honest about how much they pay themselves, spend on charity and spend on the costs of the church's real estate.
Others, however, blatantly flaunt the accumulation of wealth foolishly with sound systems, gift shops, courtyards and playgrounds, even cafes and restaurants on premise. I steer clear of these, as they strike me as no more than moneychangers in the temple who are promoting the ideal of a closed Christian society and thus ignoring their command to go out into the world and perform good works... after all, God does not need us to spread His message via a $1.50 pack of TestaMints. The catholics are REALLY blatant with it... not only do they not allow priests to marry (so as not to be financially responsible for his family) but they actively protest birth control AT ANY COST so that future generations will fill the coffers. It's not surprising to me that a great percentage of impoverished immigrants are Catholic.
From the conservative standpoint (read: neocon) reason and intellectualism threatens their livelihood by cutting into their stock in commodities such as plastics and petroleum. You can listen to just about any given conservative argument and they will boil it down to money, and in an effort to deflect their interest in it that money argument will invariably be a threat of some form of taxation that has yet to be legislated. What is puzzling to me is that the conservative constituent believes this argument without questioning why the conservative's very own principles aren't invoked: "Necessity is the mother of invention" and "the free market will naturally eliminate all woes via rugged individualism". When the continued manufacture of buggy whips can no longer be defended, the argument turns to a gasoline tax that will be levied upon the unwary purchaser of the automobile. While that may seem like a questionable allegory when viewed through the lens of history, consider the current battle over climate change and environmentalism: the power company is viewed as a government-mandated monopoly whose infrastructure is too expensive and complex to compete against, therefore a capitalistic venture to replace our energy sources is projected to yield minimal returns, and therefore the only viable solution to maintain energy income is to keep the status quo regardless of it's impact on either the environment or lives lost in foreign policy failures.
At some point some wacky intellectual liberal with plenty of trust fund money to play with is going to sit around in his basement and figure out the proper mathematics and compounds to make solar and wind energy inexpensive and profitable to store. He will do this because he doesn't need to work, therefore he doesn't have a job, which makes him a societal dreg. When he begins getting rich, conservatives will buy up the stock and wonder why they didn't think of it themselves.
What gets lost in it all is that it's against their own interests for either conservatives or fundamentalists to be at odds with intellectuals... for the conservatives, intellectuals are a source of venture capitalist inspiration; for the fundamentalists the intellectual can serve to inspire wonder about how God did it and free up their pastors to teach about love and forgiveness and mission work rather than waste everyone's time trying to battle science (which, so far, they have a win/loss record of matched only by the '08 Detroit Lions).
EDIT: Holi Kau! Only a few minutes after posting the above I check my news page and find this:
http://www.kitv.com/money/23126141/detail.html
Aside from the implications of the story itself, do you know how much 22 acres in Kaneohe is worth? or 122 acres in Kalihi valley? They owned that before the real-estate crash...
...uhhhh... The definition, maybe?
And was Jesus atheist?
Yes.
Just like all Christians are atheist.
That's beside the point. I know what the Bible and the churches in the Bible Belt say. Based on science and understanding, I think most of it is bunk and a ploy to get your money.
After all:
The point is.. Why is intellectualism frowned upon by Conservatives and Christians? Why do they make it a point to disregard professors and scholars before they try to deliver their message? What do conservatives and christians have against intellectualism? Perhaps it undermines everything they are about to tell you.
Yes, because a picture of a guy dressed as Jesus is the definitive word in this discussion...
Let's not generalize. Not all Christians and Conservatives frown on intellectualism. Virtually every adult Christian I know has a college education. Most Christians I know have no fear of intellectualism and enjoy the process of defending what they believe. Is there an element of faith to what Christians believe? Absolutely. There is an element of faith that the car you are driving every day won't just blow up. You base your belief on the fact that the car is in good condition and that the manufacturers of that car did a good job in constructing it but that does not mean it is impossible for the car to explode at any given moment. A Christian's faith is the same way. We believe that God has revealed the Truth to the world through nature, through Scripture, and through His Son Jesus. We don't have the answers to everything and that is where faith and trust come into play.
As far as avvie's comments about money: I'm sure there are some churches and ministers that are in it for the money. Human nature being the way it is makes that pretty much unavoidable. Most churches and ministers are not though. Christians and conservatives are statistically some of the most generous and giving people in the world.
That makes perfect sense. Conservatives don't want the government to control their money. They would rather give the money to church, charities, or other organizations instead of handing over their money to a government that has shows it does not know how to make good use of it. Countries with higher taxes give less to charity per capita than those with lower taxes. (Here is an article about giving.)
I'm not trying to stir things up. There were a few things that I felt needed to be addressed. Let's deal with the real issues and not attack these stereotypes and generalizations.
From where? Bible College?
I think most kids drop the God thing once educated by people that put an ounce in to philosophy.
Maybe it'd be more interesting to see exactly what these 'educations' are in. And whether or not they're from Phoenix Online.
I suppose smart Christians can exist. After all, many smart people are also irrational.
I suppose smart Christians can exist. After all, many smart people are also irrational.
Amen to that
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