Titans2008 said:
You do? With that guy who went to SD (early pick) who went to the pro bowl and Demarcus Ware (just two players) I don't.
Yea, it's not like we can't tell how a player's career will turn out after their rookie years.
Titans2008, he didn't say Mike Williams would be the best player in 5 years, or over an entire career, he said he was the best player in the draft. Clearly he was not.
I wouldn't say Cutler has done enough to pass Young or Leinart but we should remember those guys have done nothing either in the off season (except for the controversial 6 wonder sacore by Young). If Leinart or Young had worked at the combine we really don't know what might have happened if they didn't WOW anyone. In the individual workouts things could get less cloudy. The bottom line is if a team needs a QB and Cutler is on the board with the others gone he will get picked. His draft postion will be based on the specific needs of the teams drafting after the Titans. If the Jets really want a QB at #4 and Leinart and Young are gone Cutler could easily go 4th. I doubt Cutler could have done anything to surpass Young or Leinart, even if he did better in the Senior Bowl or combine simply because Young and Leinart still have the mystic attributes based on their college championships.
After the draft, I'm going to try and get an interview with one of the Titans scouts. My first question will be asking how much stock they place on a player's last college season vs. the Senior Bowl, Combine, Pro Day, etc.
That would be a good question. Still, you wonder if after the championship season and the great game Young had in the championship game if he wouldn't be better off hiding in a hole somewhere and not taking any tests or throwing any footballs. The less he does the more awesome the guy gets in peoples minds while a guy like Cutler misses a couple of throws in a session and then everyone decides he isn't as good. Heck, Young flunked the only thing he did in the off season and if he threw at the combine and missed half his passes I bet it would change a few attitudes.
Now folks are saying Young shouldn't have done anything. Before he was being downgraded because he wasn't working out in the combine. Before that he was being chastized (sp) for participating in the skills competition (where he was impressive). Bottomline, no matter what he would have done, the detractors would have been out in full force.
As far as "flunking" the Wonderlic, no one know what happened there and honestly, who cares? The teams that bring him in will "test" him by having him watch film and talk about coverages, looking at plays on a board, etc. That is the test that matters...not the wonderlic.
As far as "flunking" the Wonderlic, no one know what happened there and honestly, who cares? The teams that bring him in will "test" him by having him watch film and talk about coverages, looking at plays on a board, etc. That is the test that matters...not the wonderlic.
No doubt. When Young makes his visit to BSP, he'll be ran through the ringer mentally. With the future of the franchise at stake, I hope they find out a lot more than what a Wonderlic test will provide.
Vigsted said:
The "best player in the draft" isn't a one year award.
VolnTitan said:
Isn't that my whole point? The guy has done little or nothing and he has "detractors" because when fans, scouts, and coaches have nothing to examine they can't say anything negative. That was my point with Cutler. He has a couple of bad throws and the talk is maybe he isn't as "impressive" or what ever while the guy who doesn't throw at all is OK.
What if Young played in a game like the Senior Bowl and had a hard time grasping the scheme (considering they wouldn't install a run and gun shot gun just for him). What if Young and Leinart threw at the combine and Cutler ate the guys lunch as far as arm strength and accuracy?
Just to make a point look at this comparison. We cannot really determine how Cutler would have played at USC or how successfull Leinart would have been at Vandy. However, the statistics are interesting considering there are those who think Leinart walks on water and Cutler can't carry the guys jock.
Leinart threw for 3815 yards last year in 13 games with 28 TDs and 8 ints. Cutler threw for 3073 in only 11 games with 21 TDs and 9 ints.
Consider that Leinart had the #1 pick, Bush and a top 10 pick, White in his back field. Almost the whole OL for USC is NFL caliber (this is not a stretch, they have 3 in this draft and their center is one of the top centers next year). Even the TE is going to get drafted possibly on day 1. Steve Smith is projected to be one of the top 5 WRs in next years draft. Add into the mix that USC has 4 or 5 defensive players that will be drafted this year and about the same number next year you can see why they won so many games over the last couple of years. I will not even get into the difference in the level of coaching a guy like Leinart enjoyed while at USC compared to Cutler. Either way anyone with a rational thought process can see that a guy like Cutler whith that kind of talent around him could have easily put up as good of numbers and won as many games. Where Leinart was sitting back in the pocket with an NFL OL protecting him Cutler was running for his life. While Leinart could dish off a 5 yard pass to one of the most electrifying RBs in college history and get credited for a 80 yards TD pass Cutler was pitching the ball to guys who wouldn't even get a scholorship at USC.
So whats the point? Of course Leinart isn't going to show up and go head to head at the combine with Cutler and the rest of the QBs. He might look more ordinary and some might not thinks he walks on water any more.
Leinart's Wonderlic score being so much more than Culter's doesn't mean anything?
:suspect:
:suspect:
So what Leinhart did on the field is nothing? Cutler going to the combine and doing stuff doesn't mean a hill of beans in the long run. He had to go. He played on a horrible team, that rarely was on TV and had to show what he could do. The homerism with Cutler is amazing. He is a good QB. But I haven't seen anything ON THE FIELD that would make me rank him ahead of Leinhart and Young. He is, imo, the obvious and deserved #3 QB and will be a high draft pick, but yet for homers, that isn't good enough.
I can tell you one thing for sure, if Young played at Vandy for 4 years, he would have had more than the 10 or so wins total that Cutler had.
I can tell you one thing for sure, if Young played at Vandy for 4 years, he would have had more than the 10 or so wins total that Cutler had.
I can tell you one thing for sure. If Cutler had Reggie Bush he would have won a whole lot more games as well.
What is important isn't where Cutler gets drafted because in all honestly I don't care. What is important is that we don't drool over a guy like Leinart who may have had all that success because of the talent around him or Young, who may not translate his talent to the NFL and over look a guy like Cutler who may be the better prospect. That is homerism, it is comon sense.
What is important isn't where Cutler gets drafted because in all honestly I don't care. What is important is that we don't drool over a guy like Leinart who may have had all that success because of the talent around him or Young, who may not translate his talent to the NFL and over look a guy like Cutler who may be the better prospect. That is homerism, it is comon sense.
At the same time, one can't get caught up in the hype that is surrounding Cutler right now as the "player" of the moment and look at the players past successes AND failures...
VolnTitan said:
Agreed. But I think the hype can you blind you to the good as well as the bad. I have to admit that now that Lienart's hype is down a bit, I like him a bit more.
And I liked cutler as a top 3 qb before the hype. (but I tend to lean anti-establishment
) For me I just dont like arguments that focus on wins and loses. To me that loses the team concept; it loses that these guys won and lost as a team and were only as good as their weakest link.
To be honest I dont know which one of those three guys is a better pick. They all seem solid. But give me arguments that focus on talent and ability- not team accomplishments. :winker:
Cutler wasn't even close to a top 10 pick when the season was first over. He is a very good QB, no doubt, but if anyone doesn't think he hasn't benefited from a huge amount of hype, is fooling themselves.
VolnTitan said:
He has definitly benefited. No doubt. But dont you think his lack of being a top ten pick at the end of the season had something to do with hype surrouding VY and ML at that time?
It seems your wanting to remove the effects of the hype on Cutler and not remove those same effects on ML and VY.
So here is a question, if all three of those players played on Vandy... who would we still like? (assuming there were three vanderbilt teams in the SEC playing at same time)
Me personally, I would like Vince Young because I think, based on his full set of skills, would have took Vandy to atleast 1 or 2 bowl games. I like all three, but my point is the hype is being removed from Young and Leinhart, which I am fine with. Like I said, the ones that know more will make the decision.
He wasn't close to a top 10 pick in the eyes of draftniks. That's not the same as saying scouts felt the same way.VolnTitan said:
All this talk of hype is funny to me. Vandy fans knew just how good Cutler was all year long. It's simply that the majority of NFL fans, who don't follow Vandy, just got the memo...
What would possibly make you think Vince Young would have been any better than Cutler at Vandy? He'd still have had the same crappy OLine, RBs, and WRs (plus no defenive help). Young's stats are due, in large part, to being surrounded by a number of good/great players. Take away his surrounding players and he's going to feel the effect.VolnTitan said:
The same is true with Leinart under center for Vandy.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
