Williams, Hawk or Huff would be instant upgrades on defence. If Brick or Bush are there they would be options toward immediate winning as well. But the QB's are not.
Hawk? We just signed Thornton, and Hawks not a MLB. Huff, I think we are pretty set with Jones and Hill, unless you want Huff to replace Thompson. Brick and Bush I agree with you. I also think that Leinart would be an immediate step towards winning since he already knows Chow's offense. Williams would def. be a force across from KVB, but we won't draft him. LaBoy and Odom can get the job done.
Both Hawk and Thornton could be moved to the middle imo, just look at Lofa.
And yes I wanted Huff as safety with whoever proves better of Fuller, Hope and Thompson
And yes I wanted Huff as safety with whoever proves better of Fuller, Hope and Thompson
Our MLB's don't play that much. It's a situational spot on our team. We wouldn't draft Hawk to have him play situationally, same with Thornton, we wouldn't move him to MLB to play depending on the situation when we signed him to that big contract.
Apparently (see other thread) Thornton was used as NB by the Colts, that would open up for having Hawk and Bulluck in the middle in nickel packages. I could live with that.
Actually I could probably see Bulluck play the nickel backer too, in a cover 2 scheme.
Actually I could probably see Bulluck play the nickel backer too, in a cover 2 scheme.
Prizefighter......vigsted
If you are going to draft defense with that third pick williams is the only choice. Hawk is not as good a linebacker prospect as williams is an end prospect.
Isn't there some question as to where hawk is best suited to play? Middle or sam? I assume he would be an inside guy on a 3-4 team.
Mario williams is perhaps the best DE prospect since reggie white or bruce smith. He is actually bigger, stronger and faster than julias peppers. Think about that.
If you are going to draft defense with that third pick williams is the only choice. Hawk is not as good a linebacker prospect as williams is an end prospect.
Isn't there some question as to where hawk is best suited to play? Middle or sam? I assume he would be an inside guy on a 3-4 team.
Mario williams is perhaps the best DE prospect since reggie white or bruce smith. He is actually bigger, stronger and faster than julias peppers. Think about that.
Most people vastly underrate desire. A player is about as likely to all of the sudden give 100% every play as they are to cut three tenths off their 40 time. I think many scouts/gm's make the mistake of thinking that they can fix effort. It usually doesn't happen.
RollTide said:
I had to register for this site just to reply to your post. "He has done little or nothing to show us what an awesome athlete he is." So 200 yards rushing vs. USC and 1000 yards rushing the past two seasons (998 his freshman year) wasn't enough to show you how great of an athlete he is? Have you ever seen him play? I think his athleticism is the only part of his game that is NOT in question. His passing is vastly underrated as well. What other athletic (mobile, running, scrambling, black, whatever) college QB has thrown for 3000 yards in a season? McNabb didn't do it, Vick didn't do it. Culpepper did, but Young had 3 times the # of rushing yards Culpepper did in his last season. You said Salisbury talked about Young like scouts talked about Elway. So is it OK for media types to call Jay Cutler "the next Brett Favre?"
His workout seemed adequate? Were you there? Did you even see the whole workout? What do you have to base this opinion on?
PS. Chad Johnson ran a 4.57, too!
were you there? Guess not or you would have raved about his workout. yada,yada, yada
Ewker said:
I'm going to assume you were talking to me....
From what I've read, everyone but TWO (2) scouts/team personnel was impressed with his workout. From what I've seen on NFL.com and ESPN, it looks like he throws the ball exactly the same as I've always seen him throw, only it wasn't from the shotgun. So, being as objective as possible, he completed all but 5 passes (2 drops, 3 overthrows) out of 50+ throws and all but two scouts were impressed with him. He even caught a touchdown pass. Then he went out and ran the same forty time as Chad Johnson (nearly a tenth of a second faster than Donovan Mcnabb coming out and 2 tenths faster than Daunte Culpepper). Sounds like it was pretty successful to me...
Were you there? Guess not or you would be qualified to make the statements you did (rolltide saying his workout was only adeqaute). yada yada yada
Tssssss!
S'okay. Some people just don't want Young. Welcome to the board, arodek55.
S'okay. Some people just don't want Young. Welcome to the board, arodek55.
It doesn't matter if the Titans draft Young or not he is going to be a star in this league and he is one of those types that will find himself back in a championship game you write that down. His poise against ohio state and the pass to beat them. He had no problem trusting his passing ability and he took what the defense gave him against USC and won the game. He has shown me he has the potential to be one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game.
If we pass on Young it'll be in part because they don't think he fits the offense. I hope Reese pulls a 95 in this regard (McNair over Collins) because I would rather change the offense enough (why is this so hard with the mismatches Chow's O supposedly creates?) to suit a QB like Young, who could make it explosively better, like they should have done to suit McNair's talents early on.
arodeck...
I was specifically referring to the workouts that have occured since the rose bowl. This unusual notion that vince has that he need not run and why he would avoid the most difficult passes on his pro day. If he is so superior to jay cutler then why didn't he smoke him in the combine on the same field with the same watch?
It wasn't his actual time that i was crioticising it is the fact he wasn't expecting to run. Yes his time is better than mcnair or mcnabb but not as good as vick. On mcnair's own website it says he ran a 4.62.
I have no problem with anyone advocating young's case here. I sure have not been a draft cutler advocate. I'm just not overly impressed with his workout. He was 90% accurate in perfect conditions in his own enviroment with his own receivers. No obstacles, no coverage and no pass rush. His pro day workout was basically the same as what omar jacobs did.
I was specifically referring to the workouts that have occured since the rose bowl. This unusual notion that vince has that he need not run and why he would avoid the most difficult passes on his pro day. If he is so superior to jay cutler then why didn't he smoke him in the combine on the same field with the same watch?
It wasn't his actual time that i was crioticising it is the fact he wasn't expecting to run. Yes his time is better than mcnair or mcnabb but not as good as vick. On mcnair's own website it says he ran a 4.62.
I have no problem with anyone advocating young's case here. I sure have not been a draft cutler advocate. I'm just not overly impressed with his workout. He was 90% accurate in perfect conditions in his own enviroment with his own receivers. No obstacles, no coverage and no pass rush. His pro day workout was basically the same as what omar jacobs did.
Bigtitan...
Where did you get this idea that williams has questionable instincs? In his last 17 games he had 19 sacks and 25 tackles for loss. He must be doing something right.
The bottom line is that this guy is so physically awesome people have to assume that something must be wrong. He is emerging as an absolute stud and remember he is only 21yrs years old as of jan 31st.
He is the best DE prospect since reggie white and the best player in this draft. His supposedly bad motor and poor instincs were good enough to be all acc as a soth and first team all american on many sites as a junior.
Where did you get this idea that williams has questionable instincs? In his last 17 games he had 19 sacks and 25 tackles for loss. He must be doing something right.
The bottom line is that this guy is so physically awesome people have to assume that something must be wrong. He is emerging as an absolute stud and remember he is only 21yrs years old as of jan 31st.
He is the best DE prospect since reggie white and the best player in this draft. His supposedly bad motor and poor instincs were good enough to be all acc as a soth and first team all american on many sites as a junior.
RollTide said:
I have a few questions:
1.) Why would Vince need to run a forty? WE ALL KNOW HE CAN RUN!!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6862845755654756674&q=vince+young
2.)Do you really think that Jay Cutler even comes close to Vince Young in the mobility department? Honestly?
3.) What difficult passes did Vince not attempt?
4.) Were you impressed with Cutler's workout? Why? b/c it was windy? That was the only difference.
5.) Do you think Vick is a better runner than Young?
Arodek..
A lot of questions there. Some of them downright moronic. Why would you ask me if cutler was more mobile than young? Who the hell would say that?
As to whether vick is a better runner than young? How could we say anyone is a better runner than vick he averages 50 yards rushing per start! Nobody has ever came close to that in the nfl. Steve mcnair only averaged about 28 yards when he was still a runner. If you want to say young is comparable fine but even vick can't win with his legs alone.
Given the fact that football is played out doors and given the fact that people who have played the game will tell you it is more difficult to throw with a wind why would you ask that question? One scout said that young "wasn't even close" regarding his workout vs cutler.
I wasn't at these workouts so i can only go by what others say about them.
A lot of questions there. Some of them downright moronic. Why would you ask me if cutler was more mobile than young? Who the hell would say that?
As to whether vick is a better runner than young? How could we say anyone is a better runner than vick he averages 50 yards rushing per start! Nobody has ever came close to that in the nfl. Steve mcnair only averaged about 28 yards when he was still a runner. If you want to say young is comparable fine but even vick can't win with his legs alone.
Given the fact that football is played out doors and given the fact that people who have played the game will tell you it is more difficult to throw with a wind why would you ask that question? One scout said that young "wasn't even close" regarding his workout vs cutler.
I wasn't at these workouts so i can only go by what others say about them.
Running QBs...
I love running QBs because they bring excitement to the game and they can be very effective. A good passer who is also a great runner can take a team anywhere. But there are problems that we can't ignore. The durability factor and longevity. Not longevity just in terms of how long a guy can play but how long can he play effectively.
Durability-The most durable QBs are the ones who don't run much. Favre, manning, brady, bledsoe who have started 97-98% of their potential games on average. You can't say the same about mcnair vick, culpepper and mcnabb who collectively have only started about 82-83% of their games. That says nothing about partial games missed, practices missed and games played at less than 100%.
Longevity-Nobody doubts that manning and brady will be top QBs beyond age 30. We can't say as much for mcnabb or vick. We know without a doubt that mcnair at age 32 in 2005 was not as good as he was at 29. What happens when a running QB can't run that good any longer and has to become a pocket passer?
I'll give you an example of a guy many have compared young to. Randall cunningham. Cunningham became a starter in his second season. In seasons 2-6 he averaged 650 yards rushing a year! He was an elite QB making 3 pro bowls in those 5 seasons. Then he missed year 7 with an injury. In year 8 at the age of 29 he rushed for 549 yards and that was it. Never again would he be a great runner. He would make the pro bowl once more in that comback year in 98 with moss and the vikings but that was it beyong the age of 30.
Something to consider when drafting the next cunningham. Cunningham did have 7-8 good years and was a near hall of fame QB and you would gladly take that from any draft pick.
I love running QBs because they bring excitement to the game and they can be very effective. A good passer who is also a great runner can take a team anywhere. But there are problems that we can't ignore. The durability factor and longevity. Not longevity just in terms of how long a guy can play but how long can he play effectively.
Durability-The most durable QBs are the ones who don't run much. Favre, manning, brady, bledsoe who have started 97-98% of their potential games on average. You can't say the same about mcnair vick, culpepper and mcnabb who collectively have only started about 82-83% of their games. That says nothing about partial games missed, practices missed and games played at less than 100%.
Longevity-Nobody doubts that manning and brady will be top QBs beyond age 30. We can't say as much for mcnabb or vick. We know without a doubt that mcnair at age 32 in 2005 was not as good as he was at 29. What happens when a running QB can't run that good any longer and has to become a pocket passer?
I'll give you an example of a guy many have compared young to. Randall cunningham. Cunningham became a starter in his second season. In seasons 2-6 he averaged 650 yards rushing a year! He was an elite QB making 3 pro bowls in those 5 seasons. Then he missed year 7 with an injury. In year 8 at the age of 29 he rushed for 549 yards and that was it. Never again would he be a great runner. He would make the pro bowl once more in that comback year in 98 with moss and the vikings but that was it beyong the age of 30.
Something to consider when drafting the next cunningham. Cunningham did have 7-8 good years and was a near hall of fame QB and you would gladly take that from any draft pick.
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