You're right on the money, Sox.
You can already tell that KVB is starting to set the tone for the entire defense, not just the line.
Reese better do whatever he can to keep him.
You can already tell that KVB is starting to set the tone for the entire defense, not just the line.
Reese better do whatever he can to keep him.
I hate to say "I told you so" (not really), but anyone who knows what an athlete looks like, runs like, and plays like, knew that Laboy was the better player and the better athlete from day one. The Titans got it right. Odom is a backup.
TitanJeff said:
So explain your point, because I'm a little lost :lol:
Reese did not attempt to rework Kearse because of the amount of injuries he piled up. He wasn't the same in 2001 with a high-ankle sprain. He was out most of 2002 with the foot and had more issues in 2003. No doubt there may have been some lingering problems with the foot that year as well. So Reese had to make a decision and was unwilling to invest in Kearse because of the injury history despite doctors saying he was 100%.Bobo said:
I don't see it being that much different thant KVB. Here you have a guy with even more of an injury history than Kearse with the two ACLs. But you have a full, injury-free season which hopefully indicates it is behind him. Still, it's just ONE season removed from four others he was largely ineffective to the point of being released.
I just think Reese will not throw a lot of money at anyone who doesn't have more of a proven track record or is an injury risk.
Carter was real solid as far as not having injury issues. Too bad he wasn't close to the producer KVB has been this year. The main difference in the KVB and Kearse scenarios is that Kearse never showed much after the injuries. The risk wasn't just getting hurt again but also not producing at the same level. At least KVB is producing. Any player at any time can blow out a knee which is a risk you take with any player. Heck, EG was as reliable as a back could be but he hurt his toe and was never the same.
Obviously there is some salary/bonus range Reese will feel comfortable with and the fact that KVB has been injured in the past and has only produced one season will have an affect. Certainly Reese will want to have tiered bonuses such as roster bonuses so if a severe injury occurs he is covered.
Either way we will have to take some risk and hope KVB can be productive over the next 4-5 years. DEs that produce like he has are not easy to come by and they are not cheap.
Obviously there is some salary/bonus range Reese will feel comfortable with and the fact that KVB has been injured in the past and has only produced one season will have an affect. Certainly Reese will want to have tiered bonuses such as roster bonuses so if a severe injury occurs he is covered.
Either way we will have to take some risk and hope KVB can be productive over the next 4-5 years. DEs that produce like he has are not easy to come by and they are not cheap.
I think any player with past injury issues will be looking at the signing bonus/guaranteed money. I just don't see Reese offering nearly as much as what KVB will get on the open market.Soxcat said:
We can all talk about how the Titans gave KVB a shot and how KVB loves the areas but it will ultimately come down to who will offer him the most signing bonus. For that to happen, KVB has to hit the market. And why wouldn't he?
Obviously if a GM opens his wallet and spends 20% of his CAP money on KVB he is gone. However, at the same time Reese can't be overly tight with the purse strings either and expect to keep quality players. There is a risk involved. To keep players and win in the NFL you have to take reasonable risks and hope they pay off. We took a risk drafting Pacman. I think it will pay off. We played it safe when we drafted Dyson instead of Moss and it didn't. Trading for Henry was a risk. There is also a risk that if we let KVB go we might not find a player of his caliber at LDE for years to come and have the dubious honor of drafting in the top 10 the next couple of years.
Jeff I agree on the risks of overpaying KVB. So you think someone will come along and throw the big Swiss bank account at him like Philly did with Kearse? Kearse had more of a track record, but I guess if you look at "what have you done for me lately", KVB wins out the year before that contract.
I don't think he'll see anything close to Kearse money but a team needing one or two pieces of the puzzle in order to have a big season may be willing to do more than the Titans can (or are willing to do) right now.Bobo said:
TitanJeff said:
If that is the way KVB feels then state it and go. I don't want anyone on the Titans who does not want to be a Titan. Obviously KVB wanted to be a Titans heading into 2005 and if $$$ is all he is concerned about then basically he, like a bunch before him, just used the Titans to heal up and position himself for $$$. (Carter being the most recent example, but there have been others)
KVB is a Titan because they claimed him off the wire. Let's hope that means something to him but I don't blame any man for testing the waters when he can. He's not "using" the Titans for anything. Actually, the Titans have gotten about the best value they have from a player probably in the history of the franchise.
Ahh, I had forgotten he was a waiver claim, thought he was URFA. And that does change my argument totally.
Regardless though, if he don't want to be a Titan then fine, say so and go.
Regardless though, if he don't want to be a Titan then fine, say so and go.
GoT, I think you are forgetting that this a business too. Sure he feels some loyalty to the team that gave him a second chance. But in the end, if someone comes and doubles the offer that we give, you cant blame him for taking it. I am glad we had the opportunity to have in on our team and be one of the only things to make me smile in a crappy year. I hope he comes back, and gives the Titans a second chance.
Is there anything stopping us from offering him an extension before the season is finished? We're 4-9. It's hardly going to be a distraction going into the playoffs. Sign him up for a fair deal before he tests the market.
Wonder If Philly Regrets What They Are Paying Kearse
Kearse has been a good, but not great player for the Eagles (7.5 sacks last year, I think 6.5 so far this year); but he got a superstar-level contract (isn't Rosenhaus his agent?); I recall before Javon left Tennessee, Rosenhaus thought Javon should be paid as much as Ray Lewis. Nicknames have power; Philly bit. I wonder if they regret that?
Kearse has been a good, but not great player for the Eagles (7.5 sacks last year, I think 6.5 so far this year); but he got a superstar-level contract (isn't Rosenhaus his agent?); I recall before Javon left Tennessee, Rosenhaus thought Javon should be paid as much as Ray Lewis. Nicknames have power; Philly bit. I wonder if they regret that?
I'm sure Reese will talk with KVB's agent and try to work a deal ASAP. It is possible something could be worked out. I'm not sure KVB is intent on waiting out the best offer unless they think Reese's offer is too small. It all depends on what they feel is a fair offer. Nobody should fault a player for looking for a fair offer. Comments about players wanting or not wanting to be Titans are ridiculous. It is a business. The wild card however might be KVB having a real conncection with the coaches and thinking a large part of his success is due to Washburn's method. There is something to be said about quality as well as quantity.
Soxcat said:
How are you so sure, can't be because the Titans are known for midseason extensions.
Soxcat said:
Tell the players they are the ones saying it. And it ain't just a business, some players actually want to play football, not just cash a check.
Soxcat said:
Agreed.
I'm sure Reese will try to sign KVB before he hits free agency simply because he would be a moron not to. Doesn't mean he will get anywhere with the attempt.
You said you don't want anyone on the Titans that doesn't want to be a Titan. Even if KVB wants to be a Titan it doesn't mean he will be one. There is alot that goes into choosing an employer. Pay, security, who the boss is and location to name a few. KVB never said he "doesn't" want to be a Titan. I have no problem with a player looking into other job opportunities and just because a player doesn't choose to stay does not mean they are negative toward the Titans. Your insinuation is just because KVB may test the market he doesn't want to be a Titan. That is ridiculous. If I had to guess I would bet KVB would rather stay. The problem is the only way for KVB to really know what his options are is to hit the market.
You also said " some players actually want to play football, not just cash a check". Seems to me KVB WILL be playing football even if he goes to another team. Actually KVB might land on a team that has a shot at a championship in the next couple of years so he not only gets a fat paycheck but also gets to play in the plaoffs and possibly help a team win something. The Titans are not the most admired location for winning a championship at this time.
You said you don't want anyone on the Titans that doesn't want to be a Titan. Even if KVB wants to be a Titan it doesn't mean he will be one. There is alot that goes into choosing an employer. Pay, security, who the boss is and location to name a few. KVB never said he "doesn't" want to be a Titan. I have no problem with a player looking into other job opportunities and just because a player doesn't choose to stay does not mean they are negative toward the Titans. Your insinuation is just because KVB may test the market he doesn't want to be a Titan. That is ridiculous. If I had to guess I would bet KVB would rather stay. The problem is the only way for KVB to really know what his options are is to hit the market.
You also said " some players actually want to play football, not just cash a check". Seems to me KVB WILL be playing football even if he goes to another team. Actually KVB might land on a team that has a shot at a championship in the next couple of years so he not only gets a fat paycheck but also gets to play in the plaoffs and possibly help a team win something. The Titans are not the most admired location for winning a championship at this time.
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