Soxcat said:
Are you trying to compare an office job to a football game?
Starkiller said:
Well in that case I retract my faulty memory and reinsert
If that is the way KVB feels then state it and go. I don't want anyone on the Titans who does not want to be a Titan. Obviously KVB wanted to be a Titans heading into 2005 and if $$$ is all he is concerned about then basically he, like a bunch before him, just used the Titans to heal up and position himself for $$$. (Carter being the most recent example, but there have been others)
and as far as his "value" - that's why he has an agent. Again if it is all about $$$ and not about the Titans the IMHO so long and good riddance
Toly said:
The same issues come into play as with any job. Obviously pay is a huge incentive to take a job in the NFL because the career length is short and there is limited upward mobility. However, the team, the coach, the location all do play in the decision process. How the pay is structured also makes a big difference.
I still think this idea that because KVB wants to test the water and determine his value in the market equates to him some kind of slime is ridiculous. The Titans only offered KVB a one year deal to see what he could bring. KVB has exceeded all expectations with his hard work and great play. Saying he "used" the Titans to heal up and leave is beyond ridiculous. Even KVB could not have predicted his success and when he signed with the Titans to begin with I'm sure he was just happy to still be playing in the NFL.
The comment about Carter "positioning" himself for the big $$$ is even more ridiculous. Carter has never had injury concerns and got paid a huge amount of $$$ when he came here. Carter played 4 years for the Titans at an enormous salary. He only left because we cut him.
Whoops. My bad.Starkiller said:
I suppose the McGinnis connection came into play then? Maybe that will lead to a little more loyalty when contract talks get hot and heavy.
Soxcat said:
The pay is not just a huge incentive, but the incentive to play football because after all you are playing on the field, not working. Trying to compare an 8 to 5 job for a full year to playing a game once a week for a few months doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Not to mention the money of course.
As for KVB, I agree. I don't see anything wrong if he thinks that he can get a very good deal out there, which he'll probably get. Players going to a team that shows them the big bucks is hardly anything new these days. As much as someone wants to be a Titan, Steeler, etc. it's the green that leads the way.
That was part of it. But then only 3 teams were interested in him, and he insisted on a team that played on natural grass.TitanJeff said:
As for loyalty, we can hope. But I heard somewhere that talks have gone nowhere yet and he wants to test the free agent market. Maybe he just wants negotiating leverage or maybe he wants to go elsewhere. We'll just have to wait and see.
Soxcat said:
Nobody said KVB was slime, but thanks for playing. Your last point about the Titans giving KVB another oppertunity to play in the NFL reinforces my point about KVB owing the Titans some loyalty? in return.
Soxcat said:
There are different things other than injuries that someone might need to "heal up". Carter was considered locker room posion before Fisher/Reese spent a first round pick for him. Carter came to Tennessee and as far as I know carried himself on and off the field like a pro. He played out his contract and signed with Miami early in FA, after spending the whole season saying how much he wanted to finish his career in Tennessee.
while you are probably correct that KVB will become a UFA and go to the highest bidder, fact is he does owe the Titans something for giving him the chance to do so. You may work in a profession where in fact the best get paid more, but most of us only become UFA's when they are downsized or fired or quite. Most of us do not enjoy the luxury of having our work being paid for by the highest bidder and comparing an NFL career to almost anything else is pointless.
Why? It's not like they were the only team that considered signing him. He came here for business reasons, they didn't have established players at DE and his former head coach was here.
He could've gone somewhere else with established veterans and tried to fight his way onto the roster/into the starting lineup against tougher competition, but...why would you?
So he owes the Titans something because they had let Carter, Hall, and Juqua Thomas go, were in cap hell and they wanted him as much as he wanted a chance -- even though all they paid him was the flat minimum? Even though they didn't guarantee him anything when he came here except he'd get a quality look through training camp?
I don't buy it. The guy worked for his own success. I hope he comes back, I think there's a decent chance he will, but he doesn't owe the Titans anything. They paid him squat this year, and he gave them more productivity than guys making 10 times as much as he is.
GoT said:
Maybe we don't have the luxury of having the highest bidder but we do make decisions between more than one job offer or if we want to change jobs all the time. Employees also make decisions based on pay, loyalty, geographics and such all the time. KVB owes the Titans little more than consideration of their offer at this point. He was brought in with a one year deal at a minimum salary. To say he should stay for millions less is ridiculous and most reading this would not make that sacrifice in a job that had a short career period. I do think if the the money offered is in the ball park other issues such as mentioned before can come into play. IMO if I were in KVB's situation I would want the big contract 1st and 2nd I would like to play for a contender. There is some incentive for a guy like KVB to stay in the area and not have to relocate if he already likes the area.
I hope KVB still wants to play mostly on natural grass because that takes about half the teams out of the running. Their are 18 teams that play on natural grass. 6 of those teams currently play a 3-4 defense which KVB certainly doesn't fit the classic mold of a 3-4 DE. So that leaves 11 teams that could be potential suitors. With only Bengals, Broncos, and KC having a true need at DE. The other teams that play on grass and play a 4-3 are pretty set.
Panthers---Peppers
Bears------Ogunleye, Brown
Packers----KGB
Jags-------Hayward
Dolphins---Jason Taylor
Raiders----Burgess
Eagles-----Kearse
TB---------Rice
This draft looks pretty good at DE with Williams, Kiwi, Tapp, Hali, Dumerville all being guys taken in the 1st 2 rnds.
Last year the Jags signed Hayward who was coming off his 2nd good yr at Denver to a 5yr contract worth $25mil with $10mil guaranteed. Much less than Kearse money and more in line for what I think KVB should get. If you did the old standard back-loaded contract then his cap hit would be less than 3 mil which is easily do able.
The Raiders signed Derrick Burgess to a 5 yr deal worth $17.5 mil with bonuses of $6mil. Another guy that was injury prone and came on strong at the end of last season with Philly.
I think Floyd has to be basing his numbers off of guys like that, not the Kearse, Strahan, Abraham type of numbers.
Panthers---Peppers
Bears------Ogunleye, Brown
Packers----KGB
Jags-------Hayward
Dolphins---Jason Taylor
Raiders----Burgess
Eagles-----Kearse
TB---------Rice
This draft looks pretty good at DE with Williams, Kiwi, Tapp, Hali, Dumerville all being guys taken in the 1st 2 rnds.
Last year the Jags signed Hayward who was coming off his 2nd good yr at Denver to a 5yr contract worth $25mil with $10mil guaranteed. Much less than Kearse money and more in line for what I think KVB should get. If you did the old standard back-loaded contract then his cap hit would be less than 3 mil which is easily do able.
The Raiders signed Derrick Burgess to a 5 yr deal worth $17.5 mil with bonuses of $6mil. Another guy that was injury prone and came on strong at the end of last season with Philly.
I think Floyd has to be basing his numbers off of guys like that, not the Kearse, Strahan, Abraham type of numbers.
I agree, that's what I would expect Reese to be basing his numbers on. More along the lines of Hayward money, probably (and maybe with a little more tied to incentives as long as he replicates ths year's production).
The question is, what are the other teams who might attempt to sign KVB basing them on? I don't necessarily think anyone is going to break the bank to get him after this one stellar season....but you never know. It only takes one team to upset the applecart.
I like the Titans' chances of giving him a competitive offer that is in line with any other offer he'd receive. And if the money is comparable, I would expect the Titans have the advantage in other areas.
The question is, what are the other teams who might attempt to sign KVB basing them on? I don't necessarily think anyone is going to break the bank to get him after this one stellar season....but you never know. It only takes one team to upset the applecart.
I like the Titans' chances of giving him a competitive offer that is in line with any other offer he'd receive. And if the money is comparable, I would expect the Titans have the advantage in other areas.
Well, if anyones going to overpay, it would have to be Snyder from Washington. He's, technically, the only guy that scares me. I could see him trying to throw close to what Kearse got at KVB, especially if KVB finishes #1 or #2 on the sack list and makes the Pro Bowl.
That's absurd. That's like 66 million, the highest d-lineman contract ever. KVB shouldn't get even close to that. You know he's feeling good about the Titans, his year, his new teammates. If he wants to hit FA, fine, bravo. He's earned it. But the FO should approach him early, before the craziness begins, and hit him up with a number that makes him raise his eyebrows slightly, a little above the average of what he considers "reasonable" given all the factors. Future health being one of them. You want to surprise him, start off around $20M for 5 years. More than he would have expected last year when he was thinking he might be done. Hey, we didn't give that to Travis Henry, and he's still a star.
The tier really is the right approach, IMO. You can pay him pretty well up front, and it's prorated, then if in 2 years he's in his prime and not broken, you can pay him better. That would fit both sides. We'll see a little of the Adam Jones approach to contracting I'm sure.
The tier really is the right approach, IMO. You can pay him pretty well up front, and it's prorated, then if in 2 years he's in his prime and not broken, you can pay him better. That would fit both sides. We'll see a little of the Adam Jones approach to contracting I'm sure.
Doubtful KVB would get more money in two years than he would get now. In two years, KVB will be pushing 30. His agent's job is to get him as much as he can right now. The second veteran contract. The motherlode for most NFL players.
They're not going to want to give the Titans or any other team a lot of room to push money out. They're going to want a chance to make maximum dollars NOW. Whether that's a single bonus or a series of bonuses in the first 2-3 years (as much guaranteed as possible), they don't want to wait two years to see any real money.
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