His value is probably at an all-time high and we have 3 other good tes on the roster who are cheaper and younger. He might have some takers
I know this won't be a popular post but we can take a position where we have strengths and add to a position that we have weaknesses
Any thoughts?
I know this won't be a popular post but we can take a position where we have strengths and add to a position that we have weaknesses
Any thoughts?
Unless you're forced to because of cap, etc., I don't know what you really get out of robbing Peter to pay Paul.
If you let Kinney go, and you have an injury to (say) Troupe, does TE remain a constant strength? I like Scaife, but can you still run 2-TE as much and as effectively as you'd like? Who is your #3 if Guenther is bumped up into the #2 spot in that scenario, who will rotate in a fair amount during games?
It seems to me the way to get better is to maintain your areas of strength (within reason, but I don't think the overall investment in TEs is really out of line right now with the guys they have including Kinney), and use the resources you have left to improve your weaknesses.
If you let Kinney go, and you have an injury to (say) Troupe, does TE remain a constant strength? I like Scaife, but can you still run 2-TE as much and as effectively as you'd like? Who is your #3 if Guenther is bumped up into the #2 spot in that scenario, who will rotate in a fair amount during games?
It seems to me the way to get better is to maintain your areas of strength (within reason, but I don't think the overall investment in TEs is really out of line right now with the guys they have including Kinney), and use the resources you have left to improve your weaknesses.
I don't see three other good TEs on this team. Troupe has a ton of potential but has hardly been consistent. I'm not ready to call Scaife anything yet based on one season though he has potential. And Guenther? He has two catches this season. He may not be on the roster in '06.
Kinney is the Titans best blocking and consistent receiving TE. He saves only $250,000 or so if you cut him. I think he is far too valuable to trade.
Kinney is the Titans best blocking and consistent receiving TE. He saves only $250,000 or so if you cut him. I think he is far too valuable to trade.
And Troupe and Scaife play more of an F back role and Guenther and Kinney play a TE role, so Kinney is way too valuable to trade IMO
I'm surprised that it is taking this long for Troupe to mature as far as picking up blocking schemes and things. I'm not totally confident relying on Ben as our #1 TE but everytime he gets the ball I find myself thinking "man we need to get him the ball more often."
Not sure of the contract situation with Kinney but it would be a mistake to get rid of him, IMO.
Not sure of the contract situation with Kinney but it would be a mistake to get rid of him, IMO.
I could see it happening, even if it is a bit of a gamble. If they can get a decent pick for him (wouldn't cut him to try and save some change), I still think TE is a strong position and we could use that pick to help another hole.
We'd miss his blocking, but I think it's worth the tradeoff for Troupe getting more plays on the field to use his talents. I don't think he's been too inconsistent to be thrown into the fire like that, I think he's mainly just been misused....and really Kinney is in the way somewhat.
Now if Scaife didn't look very good, I'd be more leery of a trade. Guenther may be good enough for a #3. I'd try to use the WR's more in the O anyway, making the TE less important. We have 3 TE's in the top 20 of receptions for TE's in the league. If we continue to rely too much on the TE, then I don't expect Kinney to be a trade consideration. But I'd consider a good offer.
We'd miss his blocking, but I think it's worth the tradeoff for Troupe getting more plays on the field to use his talents. I don't think he's been too inconsistent to be thrown into the fire like that, I think he's mainly just been misused....and really Kinney is in the way somewhat.
Now if Scaife didn't look very good, I'd be more leery of a trade. Guenther may be good enough for a #3. I'd try to use the WR's more in the O anyway, making the TE less important. We have 3 TE's in the top 20 of receptions for TE's in the league. If we continue to rely too much on the TE, then I don't expect Kinney to be a trade consideration. But I'd consider a good offer.
Nah, Kinney needs to stay. Kinney is really valuable to this O and provides Veteran leadership for a young team, that's about to get younger at another key position soon: QB. If you trade him you'd be giving away one of your threats on O, your best blocker by far and a veteran leader. As for Troupe, I think he needs to be split out wide more often. He's shown when the ball is put in his hands what he can do. We really need to utilize him more like a Shockey or a Heap.
Not at all. A decision needed to be made on Bennett or McCareins because of the CAP situation and Reese could see the train was going to hit a wall soon. Turned out we got Bennett signed and had a deal for McCareins we could live with. McCareins would have been an unrestricted free agent the next year if we didn't deal him we would of lost him anyway without compensation. The situations are not even close.
Plus, at the time I'm sure there was hope to be able to keep Mason. Letting McCariens go was the only hope of that happening. If we kept McCareins we might have lost Mason anyway and had no compensation for McCareins.
Another issue is we do not have 4 good TEs, we only have 3. Gunther is not yet in the "good" category IMO (and no where near the blocker Kinney is). Secondly we still have to consider that Scaife is a player that has a past of knee problems and although he looks real good who knows how he might hold up. Thirdly, what draft pick would we get for Kinney? We don't save hardly any money on the CAP letting him go and I doubt we could easily replace him with a draft pick at the spot we would get in a trade.
This infactuation with draft picks still amazes me. How many years do we have to keep seeing the writing on the wall. A proven NFL player is worth far more than most any draft pick. The draft is a crap shoot. Right now we have two safteys on our team and a CB that were 2nd round and 1st round picks and they are looking to be busts. These are guys we need to replace to get back to respectability. Even a guy like Troupe who has all the physical skills in the world takes a couple of years to get to the level of a vet like Kinney. Kinney is solid and one of the better players on this team right now. I can think of about 11 guys I would rather part ways with.
Plus, at the time I'm sure there was hope to be able to keep Mason. Letting McCariens go was the only hope of that happening. If we kept McCareins we might have lost Mason anyway and had no compensation for McCareins.
Another issue is we do not have 4 good TEs, we only have 3. Gunther is not yet in the "good" category IMO (and no where near the blocker Kinney is). Secondly we still have to consider that Scaife is a player that has a past of knee problems and although he looks real good who knows how he might hold up. Thirdly, what draft pick would we get for Kinney? We don't save hardly any money on the CAP letting him go and I doubt we could easily replace him with a draft pick at the spot we would get in a trade.
This infactuation with draft picks still amazes me. How many years do we have to keep seeing the writing on the wall. A proven NFL player is worth far more than most any draft pick. The draft is a crap shoot. Right now we have two safteys on our team and a CB that were 2nd round and 1st round picks and they are looking to be busts. These are guys we need to replace to get back to respectability. Even a guy like Troupe who has all the physical skills in the world takes a couple of years to get to the level of a vet like Kinney. Kinney is solid and one of the better players on this team right now. I can think of about 11 guys I would rather part ways with.
A 3rd TE not being considered "good" yet is what you have on every team. You could go as far to say that about the 2nd or even 1st TE for many teams. If we insist on relying on the TE's this much, I'd understand....but aren't we over doing it? I think so.
We've built this team mostly through the draft, we've got many holes, seems logical to covet draft picks. Of course we can offset some of our needs this year through free agency....hopefully. The draft is a crap shoot, and I can see this arguement either way. Like most things, it's not black and white.
We've built this team mostly through the draft, we've got many holes, seems logical to covet draft picks. Of course we can offset some of our needs this year through free agency....hopefully. The draft is a crap shoot, and I can see this arguement either way. Like most things, it's not black and white.
To rely on 2-TE, which is NOT a bad thing IMO (the Colts like it, too), you really need three very solid TEs or you have to limit your playbook in those sets every time you have an injury. Especially when you don't have ironmen at the position who you know just don't miss games, so injuries/missed time are a distinct possibility.
I wouldn't be so quick to get rid of the consistent producers for the unknown, unless the cap dictates you have to make those choices.
I wouldn't turn down an unexpectedly good offer, either, but if the Titans are the ones making it known they are shopping Kinney, teams probably are going to try and bargain the Titans down. I don't see them getting enough draft value for Kinney to where I think it's worth losing Kinney.
That's a very nice loaded question. Either way, he's not a Titan.
What would you be willing to give Kinney up for?
I'd do it for a 2nd without hesitation.
I'd do it for a 2nd without hesitation.
nendzone said:
I'm not saying a 2 TE set is a bad thing, and we've used it with only 3 TE's on the roster before. One being Kinney, one being a below average Shad Meier, and the other being an aging and hurt Wycheck. 3 is deep enough IMO for how we should use the TE's. Almost no other team is keeing 4 TE's on their roster. I can't worry that much about injuries to keep an extra guy on the roster when we are desperate at other positions. We should not be so dependant on one position.
Well if you want to talk injuries, Kinney gets hurt consistently. If you mean we'd give him up for the unknown and you're refering to the draft pick, well that's true. Teams make those decisions all the time, and we'll have to make some tough ones to move forward. But it's not like we're sitting on a gold mine or anything with Kinney.
If you mean the unknown as in Troupe, Scaife, and Guenther....well I don't think that's so much of an unknown. Troupe has shown what he can do, and he's a 2nd rounder who needs to be on the field more anyway IMO. Scaife has looked the part of a good, and versatile #2. Maybe Guenther makes it, maybe they find someone better.
If they don't want to give up enough for him, then don't trade. I'd take a 2nd and probably a 3rd.
I don't get what's with people wanting to trade one of our best players and a key veteran on the Offense. Is it because an inconsitent TE had a breakout game and a 6th round rookie, with a history of injuries, has preformed beyond expectations? Kinney's worth more than a 2nd rounder to us. Teams don't see that and will want him for less and we won't bite.
Because they are under the delusion that an unknown college player is automatically better than a proven veteran. Most of these same people would trade Brown for a 2nd rounder in a second as well. In their minds all these college kids are automatically better players despite the fact even 2nd round and even 1st round players are no sure thing (we have a few that are worthy of unemployement right now).
most of those guys worth unemployment are on the OLine and LB/Secondary positions - definitely not at TE. If you want some people gone here's a list:
Sirmon
LT
Kassell
Hartwig
Olson
Hopkins
Sirmon
LT
Kassell
Hartwig
Olson
Hopkins
while I agree with the bulk of your post, I do fall in the catagory that CB for a 2nd would be a good deal as I think CB is worthy of unemployment as well.
But he would have to stand in line behind Hopkins, Hartwig, Piller, Nickey, L Thompson, T Williams, Boiman ( cause if he can't beat out Sirmon or Kassell he needs to go), and Woolfolk. Course that is just off the top of my head and there is a CAP, but still.
But he would have to stand in line behind Hopkins, Hartwig, Piller, Nickey, L Thompson, T Williams, Boiman ( cause if he can't beat out Sirmon or Kassell he needs to go), and Woolfolk. Course that is just off the top of my head and there is a CAP, but still.
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