TitanJeff said:
That was exactly what my argument was concerning the inaccuracy of the article. Bennett and Givens are solid (maybe not spectacular) starters. Behind them is a great amount of potential. Technically the 2nd year guys have proven something because they all had solid years for rookie WRs. The fact we had three rookies which is unusual they split alot of snaps which spread the stats out (almost perfectly even actually) and Jones in particlular looked pretty darn good until he got injured. Wade might be the real deal as well and anybody trying to get a read by looking at his stats last year could not possibly see that. Wade played on the Bears for most of the year and they were the most inept passing team in the NFL with a rookie QB. Wade only played in two worthless games for the Titans.
Add in the fact we had a very capable pass catching group of TEs also skewed the perception that our WRs were not very good. I think this group is a lot better than anyone is giving them credit for.
I think you'd have to define "solid". If you take Bennett's 738 and four TDs and add in 738 receiving yards two TDs, you don't equal what Santana Moss did on his own.Soxcat said:
Just to get an idea of tandems in the AFC South, Harrison/Wayne combined for 2,201 and 17 TDs. Smith/Wilford had 1,704 receiving yards with 13 TDs. Granted, neither of these clubs had the TE production the Titans had but that often points to the inability of the WRs as much as it does the quality of the TEs. I think balance is the key.
I think we'll know by the bye week. There just isn't enough info right now to do more than speculate on either side of the debate.
You can't base your whole argument on last years stats. We all know that last year was scewed up for a number of reasons such as poor play by the OL, poor running game (wanna blame those on the WRs?) and not real great play at the QB postion either (wanna bet Bennett would of had some real nice stats catching passes from Manning, Givens also).
Givens stats were scewed against him as well because of how they threw the ball to different players at NE (Brady threw for 4100 yards and Givens paltry 738 yards was second best on the team). Branch at #1 didn't break 1000 yards last year. Of course NE is a team that apparently had WR woes last year and certainly might have them this year.
Bennetts stats are not that bad either considering his biggest downfall is staying healthy all year. He only played in 13 games and only started 10. He could have easily broken the 1000 yard mark if he stayed healthy all year.
Basically our #2 WR last year was a group of three rookies that caught passes for almost 900 yards and 5 TDs. All three of those guys are now in their 2nd year, the year where most players make the biggest jump.
One team in the NFL had only a paltry 1600 yards from their two top WRs but somehow managed to win a SB.
The only thing this team lacks is a bonofide super star at WR. Other than that we have a group that is more than adequate to get the job done if the other pieces of the puzzle fall into place.
Givens stats were scewed against him as well because of how they threw the ball to different players at NE (Brady threw for 4100 yards and Givens paltry 738 yards was second best on the team). Branch at #1 didn't break 1000 yards last year. Of course NE is a team that apparently had WR woes last year and certainly might have them this year.
Bennetts stats are not that bad either considering his biggest downfall is staying healthy all year. He only played in 13 games and only started 10. He could have easily broken the 1000 yard mark if he stayed healthy all year.
Basically our #2 WR last year was a group of three rookies that caught passes for almost 900 yards and 5 TDs. All three of those guys are now in their 2nd year, the year where most players make the biggest jump.
One team in the NFL had only a paltry 1600 yards from their two top WRs but somehow managed to win a SB.
The only thing this team lacks is a bonofide super star at WR. Other than that we have a group that is more than adequate to get the job done if the other pieces of the puzzle fall into place.
I agree. I think stats are just a part of the picture here. But I can see how some would look at them and draw the conclusion the writer of this article did. Some will say an undrafted guy and a seventh rounder can't have the talent to get it done either. Why should anyone give any respect to our WR unit until they put up some numbers?Soxcat said:
I think so too. But the proof will be coming up in about a month.
I guess some of these "stats" are from Football Outsiders? If you look at previous years, you'll see Bennett "ranked" much better. Mason helped for sure. Drew was ranked ahead of Mason in 04.
But of course like has been already said, it's a team effort. McCareins was near the top in 03 (like Drew), to quite a bit worse in 04 with the Jets, then to bad last year.
What does it all mean? Lots of work to gather truely in depth stats that don't mean a whole lot :stars:
But of course like has been already said, it's a team effort. McCareins was near the top in 03 (like Drew), to quite a bit worse in 04 with the Jets, then to bad last year.
What does it all mean? Lots of work to gather truely in depth stats that don't mean a whole lot :stars:
Smart***Titan said:
Wade does have a 40+ catch season under his belt as a receiver for Chicago (2004, when he the Bears were in pretty bad shape at QB after Grossman went down early), and he did have a couple of punt returns of at least 45 yards last year. One was a 73-yard TD.
He was basically battling fellow Bears WR/KR Bernard Berrian for the same job last year (a guy the Bears have always talked about as having upside as a potential outside WR), and when Wade hit his worst stretch around the same time Berrian was getting ready to return from a broken thumb, it gave the Bears even more reason to make the change.
I have no idea if what Wade is showing on the practice field here will translate once the pads go on for real. But sometimes, there is something to be said for a change of scenery.
I agree with nend, here. If you had asked Bears fans at the time, many thought Wade was an up and coming WR. He'd shown a lot of promise and was talked about the way we use to talk about Mason before he broke out. I'm NOT saying Wade will be as good as Mason, but they are similar WRs. Wade can make the tough catch. He also had crap to work with as far as QBs in Chicago.
The punt drop thing may have been mental. From what I have heard, he's done fine with that here. We'll see in the preseason whether all this translates, as nend says. Won't be long....just one week
The punt drop thing may have been mental. From what I have heard, he's done fine with that here. We'll see in the preseason whether all this translates, as nend says. Won't be long....just one week
Any thoughts on adding Porter to the mix? Are three #2's as good as a #1 and a #2?
Does anyone know why Givens was a 7th round pick? (sorry, I don't know where to go to look for historical draft analyses). He seems plenty quick/shifty to me, but I'm wondering if it was combination of size/speed that left him nearly undrafted.
Givens was a man without a position in college (listed as a WR/RB/KR). His best season as a receiver was 33 catches for 317 yards. His college career total of receiving TDs was 3(none in his final year).
I think he was probably considered a really good athlete (although not exceptionally big or fast), but not necessarily an NFL-ready receiver.
It happens. There are always stories of guys who slip through the cracks coming out of college and end up being solid NFL players.
I think he was probably considered a really good athlete (although not exceptionally big or fast), but not necessarily an NFL-ready receiver.
It happens. There are always stories of guys who slip through the cracks coming out of college and end up being solid NFL players.
you have been missed. i've read numerous posts calling out to you. one poster even suggested to Jeff that he photoshop a chalkboard message. :lol:nendzone said:
From today's Tennessean report:
"On the very next play a pass bounced off WR Tyrone Calico and Harris picked it… "
"On the very next play a pass bounced off WR Tyrone Calico and Harris picked it… "
Very clever Riverman, but it does sound like he is out of here.. just thinking out loud, but a change of scenery might help him- maybe trade him to Dallas so the TO wannabe can be with TO..
I have two Calico jerseys in my house. I'm just a liiiiiiit-tle bitter.
Justin McCareins is apparently in Mangina's dog house in New York. I wonder how much it would cost to pry J Mac back from the Jets. I realize much of the reason for bringing Justin back are gone (no more McNair, no more Dinger offense), but hey if we could pick him up for that extra fourth round pick... I'd say grab him. Honestly I've been somewhat against bringing in another wideout, but I've always had a soft spot for McCareins.
Yeah- I really hated it when he left, but I think we're stacked at WR now.
Man, Calico has come apart at the seams this camp. I've been on him for a long time because he's been a disappointment- but after a day like yesterday I feel sorry for him. Just cut him now and put him out of his misery.
Excerpt from Tennessean:
http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060809/SPORTS01/608090410/1027
"I saw a ball hit him in the face today. You need to catch those balls," Fisher said "I don't know if he is pressing or what, but he has had opportunities to make plays and he is not making the plays.
"It is going to be tough on Ty. He is going to have to make some plays in the preseason games real quick."
Calico, slowed by a foot injury earlier in training camp, said he knows he's in a competitive situation at wide receiver.
"I just have to get back to the basics and keep my eyes on the ball," Calico said. "If you take your hands off the ball you aren't going to catch nothing."
Excerpt from Tennessean:
http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060809/SPORTS01/608090410/1027
"I saw a ball hit him in the face today. You need to catch those balls," Fisher said "I don't know if he is pressing or what, but he has had opportunities to make plays and he is not making the plays.
"It is going to be tough on Ty. He is going to have to make some plays in the preseason games real quick."
Calico, slowed by a foot injury earlier in training camp, said he knows he's in a competitive situation at wide receiver.
"I just have to get back to the basics and keep my eyes on the ball," Calico said. "If you take your hands off the ball you aren't going to catch nothing."
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Ty's source of inspiration.
Ty's source of inspiration.
Riverman said:
If you take your HANDS off the ball you are not going to catch it? Isn't that a given? I think he meant eyes but still. Maybe in Calicos case taking his hands off the ball would help him catch balls. They seem to get in the way especially in the end zone.
He is great in Madden though.:yes:
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