"Even without the turnovers, if we lose, I take the blame on this one," the Broncos' quarterback said yesterday after his four turnovers contributed mightily to the Broncos' 34-17 loss to the Steelers in the AFC Championship Game. "That's my job. As a quarterback, I have to lead this team to a win, and I didn't get that job done."
Is this too PC or not PC enough?
Is this too PC or not PC enough?
TitanJeff said:
Thats him being careful with his words because he heard and read all week how the media threw manning under the bus and he doesnt want the same fate Im sure. Jake has been labeled a choker and stupid decision maker his whole career, you can bet he was going to come off as the perfect team mate knowing how he is perceived, plus seeing the media circle jerk over Mannings interview.
wino said:
Personally, I think Peyton is THE top pocket passer in the NFL. However, his weakness is his lack of physical skills- he has never had to develop this part of his game because of his talent at reading defenses and getting the ball out quick by making the appropriate check-down. That's why, IMO, he is not (and won't ever be) the BEST QB in the NFL.
Give the Steelers credit- they had Peyton confused and Porter and others were taking angles that no O-lineman could adjust to. In a situation like this, the RB usually picks up the blitz and/or the QB rolls-out, checks down or audibles to a draw. It didn't happen. In that situation, it's up to the QB to make something happen (vis-a-vis Steve McNair in the 2002 season).
Manning was WRONG to put it on his line without saying he was deficient in his play.
First of all, Jake would rather have not been in front of the cameras. That's not his thing.
2nd why don't we blame the Pittsburgh Steelers defense for both losses (Colts & Broncos). They figured out how to rattle the QB, especially Manning which I've said for years. New England did it regularly; San Diego made it look easy; and Pittsburgh just took the idea and made it a classic.
Why doesn't the defense coordinators pay attention to how they did it? They know if Manning has all the time he wants, if it's in the same zip code, it's a catch. Well get your defensive butts in his face and he'll fail every time.
2nd why don't we blame the Pittsburgh Steelers defense for both losses (Colts & Broncos). They figured out how to rattle the QB, especially Manning which I've said for years. New England did it regularly; San Diego made it look easy; and Pittsburgh just took the idea and made it a classic.
Why doesn't the defense coordinators pay attention to how they did it? They know if Manning has all the time he wants, if it's in the same zip code, it's a catch. Well get your defensive butts in his face and he'll fail every time.
Riverman...
That post makes no sense. If you don't have time to throw the ball you will find it hard to locate open receivers. Plain and simple. You talk about these "physical skills". Does tom brady have them? Is he a great runner? He has won 3 super bowls! Just because manning can't move out of the pocket like a young steve mcnair doesn't mean he can't be effective. No QB is effective with only a second to throw.
That one joey porter sack came because nobody touched him. The colts had max protect with edge and clark in the backfield and clark went to help out inside leaving porter a clean run to the QB. That is poor fundamentals and one of the problems with using a TE in the backfield.
If there was some universal formula to stop this guy nobody has found it on a consistent basis. Normally sending the kitchen sink at manning has been a recipe for disaster. The steelers were good enough to make it work.
Doesn't jake plummer have those physical skills you taked about? How did he do?
That post makes no sense. If you don't have time to throw the ball you will find it hard to locate open receivers. Plain and simple. You talk about these "physical skills". Does tom brady have them? Is he a great runner? He has won 3 super bowls! Just because manning can't move out of the pocket like a young steve mcnair doesn't mean he can't be effective. No QB is effective with only a second to throw.
That one joey porter sack came because nobody touched him. The colts had max protect with edge and clark in the backfield and clark went to help out inside leaving porter a clean run to the QB. That is poor fundamentals and one of the problems with using a TE in the backfield.
If there was some universal formula to stop this guy nobody has found it on a consistent basis. Normally sending the kitchen sink at manning has been a recipe for disaster. The steelers were good enough to make it work.
Doesn't jake plummer have those physical skills you taked about? How did he do?
Titanfan...
You don't think teams have tried to blitz manning before? You think it has only been done a few times in the last 3 years? That's nonsense. Of course teams have tried that and many have found themselves down by 21 points before the game even starts. Most of the time it HAS NOT worked because manning gets the ball out so quick.
Any passing game is going to have problems with less time to throw. The QB has less time to locate a receiver and receivers have less time to get open. That's a no brainer! But what happens when your corners can't cover their WRs and you don't have defenders in the middle like polamalu or rodney harrison? You get toasted. Marvin harrsison has a 150 yard day and dallas clark is running wide open down the middle of the field.
It always kills me when guys like you think that blitzing the colts offense is something new. It's not! But for every game that manning has struggled in the last 3 seasons there are about 7 where he has lit someone up and there is no way you can blitz a lot of people and cover those receivers.
You don't think teams have tried to blitz manning before? You think it has only been done a few times in the last 3 years? That's nonsense. Of course teams have tried that and many have found themselves down by 21 points before the game even starts. Most of the time it HAS NOT worked because manning gets the ball out so quick.
Any passing game is going to have problems with less time to throw. The QB has less time to locate a receiver and receivers have less time to get open. That's a no brainer! But what happens when your corners can't cover their WRs and you don't have defenders in the middle like polamalu or rodney harrison? You get toasted. Marvin harrsison has a 150 yard day and dallas clark is running wide open down the middle of the field.
It always kills me when guys like you think that blitzing the colts offense is something new. It's not! But for every game that manning has struggled in the last 3 seasons there are about 7 where he has lit someone up and there is no way you can blitz a lot of people and cover those receivers.
RollTide said:
I agree with most everything you're saying. Although Brady is slow, he is faster and gets out of the pocket better than Manning. He has as good an ability to read defenses and make appropriate check-downs. IMO, he's a better QB than Manning. He also has intangible leadership skills.
I agree that others have tried to blitz Colts and got burned. I agree that the Steelers deserve alot of credit because they made it work. However, there was something unique in the disguised LB blitzes that confused Manning and the Line. I saw 2 or three plays where the MLB pulled out and blitzed from around the end- something that requires alot of speed. Plus Porter played a helluva game.
excerpt from http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/football/nfl/specials/playoffs/2005/01/22/look.ahead.ap/ where Seahawks are prepping for SB.
".....There might be one factor favoring the Steelers.
They play one of the most effective 3-4 defenses in the NFL, blitzing linebackers from different angles, usually starting with Joey Porter from the outside.
Seattle played only one 3-4 all season -- against Dallas -- and had all kinds of trouble with it, finally winning 13-10 by scoring 10 points in the final 40 seconds. The Cowboys held the Seahawks, who finished second in the NFL yards per game with 370 to 289 yards by jamming nine and 10 men at the line of scrimmage and bumping Seattle's receivers.
"It's different," said center Robbie Tobeck, who played in the 1999 Super Bowl with Atlanta. "They have a great defensive line. Fortunately, we have a couple of weeks to prepare for them."
In regards to Plummer- Gimme a break. His physical skill are good but his decision making is nowhere close to Brady's or Manning's for that matter. I should clarify my point that the elite QB's have a combination of excellent decision making and physical skills to "bail out" the team when faced with innovative schemes like the Steelers are currently running. Obviously, I don't believe Manning has the physical skills (legs) to help "bail out". Don't get me wrong- I think Manning is THE best pocket passer in the NFL, just not what I'd consider "elite".
wino said:
Actually, he shoulders must not be able handle what the "haters" throw his way because if they were he would shoulder it. But he chose to turf it to his OL so they can carry the weight of the loss on their shoulders. Broad shoulders would have been I didn't handle the blitz well.
In my opinion the previous statement is the problem. Hell, he isn't the only QB to get blitzed. The problems is not a lot of people tried this season or last season for that matter. So when it happened, it was unfamiliar and he did not know what to do. Manning is a great studier, watches tons of game film but when he sees something unfamiliar he can't adjust. He was expecting and didn't have a plan B. Since he chooses to call his owns plays, that makes him the primary problem. Calling out his O-line who was good enough to help him win 13 straight to start the season is unfair. Pittsburgh brought everything but the kitchen sink, at some point to expect the O-line to pick up that everytime is crazy. Maybe just as crazy as saying Manning should have thrown for 400 yards despite the blitz.
"Protection" doesn't mean the offensive line... riiiiiiiight.
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060202/SPORTS03/602020435/1100
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060202/SPORTS03/602020435/1100
TitanJeff said:
IN fairness, he did say "we", which in the english language obviously includes him, so not sure how he is reflecting blame when he clearly included himself in that blame. I still think this is an issue created by journalists with way to much time on their hands and a lack of reading comprehension skills.
Thats surprising... he's so full of himself, I didnt there would be room to be full of crap too.
TitanJeff said:
Jeff in that article thats also not what he is saying. He is saying that protection is more than just the offensive line, and again, he said "we" which clearly includes him. Some of you guys need to just admit that if peyton was the second coming of christ you would still find ways to criticize him, this is ridiculous.
A little off topic, but I upgraded to digital cable yesterday and my new package includes the NFL Channel (woo hoo!). Anyway, I turned it on this morning and they were having a press conference/awards ceremony for NFL man of the year. Peyton won the award.
In his acceptance speech, he talked about a kid helped by his foundation who had a crack addict mother and had been placed in a foster home. He compared that situation to his memory of being a 4 year old child riding on a catamaran without his parents permission with Walter Payton.
Sounds reasonable enough to me.
In his acceptance speech, he talked about a kid helped by his foundation who had a crack addict mother and had been placed in a foster home. He compared that situation to his memory of being a 4 year old child riding on a catamaran without his parents permission with Walter Payton.
Sounds reasonable enough to me.
"We" may mean "us" but "protection" means "the act of protecting" and that is done by those who block when discussing football.dg1979us said:
As I've stated here before, I have nothing but admiration for the guy in just about everything I know about him except how he deals with defeat.
TitanJeff said:
Thats fine, but he still never singled out the Oline at anytime, and he never said it didnt include the Oline. This is some sort orwellian newspeak where if peyton says "we" it = "they". I think this whole situation was caused by shotty journalism, its not Peytons fault the media is fascinated with him. Criticizing his game is one thing, puttting words in his mouth and changing the meaning of his quotes is pretty ****ty journalism though.
TitanJeff said:
Yes, and it also entails schemes, and game planning, and calling out protections, and playcalling and this and that, which is certainly part of what peyton does.
And my last post wasnt entirely directed towards you, I dont agree with you on this point but you do give credit where credit is due. It was more meant for the people so blinded by homerism that they can never give manning credit for anything.
That's fine. But go back to the first post. Read the comments in the context it was presented.
"I'm trying to be a good teammate here..."
"I'm looking for the safe word here, guys..."
Kravitz is about as close to Manning and the Colts as one can be. He says in the article that Peyton has this dealing with failure issue and I see his latest comments as just adding more fuel to the fire.
"I'm trying to be a good teammate here..."
"I'm looking for the safe word here, guys..."
Kravitz is about as close to Manning and the Colts as one can be. He says in the article that Peyton has this dealing with failure issue and I see his latest comments as just adding more fuel to the fire.
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