GoT said:
Umm, dude, this is professional football. A game where a person is payed to perform at certain level. Essentially, it is an organized arrangement of highest bidders for a service.
In regards to loyalty, I must assume that if someone offered you a lot more money to work elsewhere you would turn it down- regardless of the amount.
Why should players take a paycut? It's one thing if they couldn't get a job or decent contract on the free agent market. But there is no incentive to take a paycut to stay with a rebuilding team.
The NFL is a business, and it cuts both ways. If you want nothing but players who are happy to take whatever their team will give them then you will end up with a losing team every year...
The NFL is a business, and it cuts both ways. If you want nothing but players who are happy to take whatever their team will give them then you will end up with a losing team every year...
Riverman said:
Umm, dude, did the Titan D perform at a certain level the last two seasons?. Did Nedney live up to the "service" part of his multi year contract with the Titans. Technically he did, course he did it in rehab.
And I, like you I assume, am a free agent. I am not constantly on the lookout for another higher paying job all the time. If $$$ was all that mattered I would not be in Tennessee I would be in New England or California. There ARE more important things than money.
Starkiller said:
I guess I would say LOYALTY could be a factor in a player staying with a rebuilding team. Course that could just be me.
I would say it is greed and greed alone that would make a guy like Fisk take a pittance more from SD than the Titans offered him, and I believe he did not give the Titans a chance to match. Fisk was getting endorsements in Tennessee and was on his way to becomming a Wycheck like personality, but hey he got 100k or so more to be in SD so good for him.
I would say I want FOOTBALL PLAYERS who want to be TITANS not athletes who want to be paid by the Titans. I never stated I would perfer only guys who would play for the minimum. As far as I am concerned the Titans have offered guys like George, Kearse, the gaggle of 6 mentioned above, Bishop, ect. fair market contracts. They CHOOSE to move on out of greed and lack of loyalty. Guys like Carter who talk the talk then walk for $ make me POed in particular. At least with Adam Jones I expect him to demand stupid $.
Loyalty cuts both ways. Do you feel the Titans were loyal to McNair? Even Twitch played gimpy for weeks just to be later released.
I think you have a legit point when you use Eddie as an example but I think it is unrealistic to expect a top player to play for significantly less than what he can make elsewhere.
I think you have a legit point when you use Eddie as an example but I think it is unrealistic to expect a top player to play for significantly less than what he can make elsewhere.
I don't like defensive holding calls but they are part of the game. Losing players like McNair angers a part of me... but sadly, it is just part of the game. Winning championships is more than what takes place on the feild. The brass has to play an A-game as well. Hopefully, in the future Reese and Company will put us in a position to win.
GoT said:
I wonder how greedy and loyal you would be if another employer offered you a 20% increase in pay? Sure these guys are a little greedy. So what, who isn't. They have a limited number of years to play and if they try to make the most of it either monetarily or by playing for a contender all the moer power to them. Heck, Carter not only made more money but he could be in a SB alot faster in the twightlight of his career.
I don't have to. They already know the league is a business...GoT said:
GoT said:
The D did not and therefore many were let go or asked to re-structure. And yes Nedney did live up to his CONTRACT but not his expectations. His injuries were a huge disappointment. Hence, he also was let go.
Let's talk about Vanden Bosch- performed well above his pay. Re-signed at a fair market contract. Was he going to stay a Titan for less- no way. And the Titans were the team that gave him his chance. Point is, these guys are professional football players. They are loyal to the NFL, not a particular franchise.
I find it hard to believe you would stay at your current job if they said "Here's a new guy. Train him to do your job. By the way, our competition called and offered you 20% more pay, guaranteed for 2 years. Oh yeah, they also threw in a fat signing bonus if you'll go over there right now."
Of course money isn't everything, but it is the common denominator that we all live by.
Riverman,
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I think KVB is the opposite example. The guy had some major injuries, and his original team let him go. The titans signed him to a one year cheap contract and he over performed by a landslide. The Titans did sign him to a better contract, but it was not the most money he could have gotten. Sorry, I don't have a link, but he said/others said about him, that he could have gotten a little more money from other teams, but the Titans gave him his shot and he was willing to stay for below his max value. KVB was loyal to the franchise, not the paycheck. He's the example of the guy who really earns his big reward, but doesn't have to get every penny or leave.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I think KVB is the opposite example. The guy had some major injuries, and his original team let him go. The titans signed him to a one year cheap contract and he over performed by a landslide. The Titans did sign him to a better contract, but it was not the most money he could have gotten. Sorry, I don't have a link, but he said/others said about him, that he could have gotten a little more money from other teams, but the Titans gave him his shot and he was willing to stay for below his max value. KVB was loyal to the franchise, not the paycheck. He's the example of the guy who really earns his big reward, but doesn't have to get every penny or leave.
KVB didn't sign for below market value. He got a pretty damned big deal, with lots of guaranteed money, for a guy who had a history of knee injuries and just 1 good year under his belt. Plus, he also signed before he knew the salary cap was going to go up.
TitanJeff said:
I have no problem with the way the Titans handled McNairs departure. The Titans were correct about Kearse and I believe they will be proved correct about McNair also.
FM playing those last few games while Todd Williams was healthy and available still dumbfounds me. There was zero downside to benching FM and seeing what anyone else could do.
But yes FM was a team player in that instance, and why would he not be he was at the end of a +30m contract where he was at best an average RT.
I don't expect Titans to play for significantly less than top $, I do expect guys like Jason Fisk to stay for just a few dollars less than top $. I still think there had to be more to Fisk leaving than anyone knew.
Riverman said:
by not being on constant look out for a better paying job I am in fact showing loyalty to my employer. If another company out of the blue offered me a significant raise, even with even commutes ect., the money would only be a part of any considerations I would factor. Comparing average Joes with NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL contracts is really not valid for any number of reasons.
SEC 330 BIPOLAR said:
I agree the more I ponder it Reese seems to be the guy who has not done his job. Every GM will have some draft picks flop, goes with the territory. Reese has developed too many man crushes on combie/workout warriors instead of guys who might not run quite as fast in shorts but can play the game.
Then there is the whole other issue of Titans free agent acquisitions. Again at best Reese is average in this, partly due to his CAP manipulations to keep the 1999 team together for too long and partly due to his bad judgement both in acquisition (Pickens, Jenkins and Comella) and his allowing to depart (Neal and Runyon)
Again just one guys opinion.
Again for clarification.
I would say I want FOOTBALL PLAYERS who want to be TITANS not athletes who want to be paid by the Titans. I never stated I would perfer only guys who would play for the minimum. As far as I am concerned the Titans have offered guys like George, Kearse, the gaggle of 6 mentioned above, Bishop, ect. fair market contracts. They CHOOSE to move on out of greed and lack of loyalty.
And don't get me started about Peter "No Maas" Sirmon and his lack of loyalty. He should have been given his release the minute after his faxed resignation hit Reeses office. Sirmon - Slow, Overpaid and Gutless
I would say I want FOOTBALL PLAYERS who want to be TITANS not athletes who want to be paid by the Titans. I never stated I would perfer only guys who would play for the minimum. As far as I am concerned the Titans have offered guys like George, Kearse, the gaggle of 6 mentioned above, Bishop, ect. fair market contracts. They CHOOSE to move on out of greed and lack of loyalty.
And don't get me started about Peter "No Maas" Sirmon and his lack of loyalty. He should have been given his release the minute after his faxed resignation hit Reeses office. Sirmon - Slow, Overpaid and Gutless
GoT said:
1. I'm sure to would have an agent representing your best financial interests if your job paid like NFL contracts do.
2. You are the one who is comparing major league with average Joe's by introducing the "loyalty to employer" concept. ]
3. You should be looking for the best offer for you services. IMO, testing the market is not being disloyal at all, as long as you communicate clearly with all parties involved. IMO, not assessing your own worth (market value) is bad business on your part.
Starkiller,
I didn't mean that KVB took an unfair contract. I think he took a perfectly decent market contract. But he didn't test the market to see if he could get more, which I think he could have, and several people at the time said he could have gotten more. If he'd waited until the salary cap went up he definitely could have gotten more. I think the Titans offer was fair and reasonable, and he's certainly earning some nice change, but he would rather take the Titans' fair offer than try to get the best he could on the market.
I didn't mean that KVB took an unfair contract. I think he took a perfectly decent market contract. But he didn't test the market to see if he could get more, which I think he could have, and several people at the time said he could have gotten more. If he'd waited until the salary cap went up he definitely could have gotten more. I think the Titans offer was fair and reasonable, and he's certainly earning some nice change, but he would rather take the Titans' fair offer than try to get the best he could on the market.
But most of the guys that GoT brought up as being disloyal were not free agents. They already had contracts with the Titans. He expected them to take paycuts.
As for KVB, he liked Nashville and the Titans. It was worth it for him to stay with a fair deal even if he potentially could have gotten more. Not all players would necessarily prefer Nashville over another city given similar money. Look at John Runyan, who went to Philly because his wife's family lives nearby.
As for KVB, he liked Nashville and the Titans. It was worth it for him to stay with a fair deal even if he potentially could have gotten more. Not all players would necessarily prefer Nashville over another city given similar money. Look at John Runyan, who went to Philly because his wife's family lives nearby.
GoT said:
I agree some of the FA signings in the past have not been good. Reese was really out of the FA business for the last few years so lets hope he learned something before and picked some gems this time. I think the guys we picked up this time are solid, reasonable $ and good team players.
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