Starkiller said:
we'll agree' to disagree over the usage of the word "normal" - lol
I built my PC for a specific purpose - I needed a RAID for a project and when you know exactly what you want finding it on the shelf is nearly impossible. So I built it and not only saved $ I got what I wanted and needed. A computer purchase should not be considered a hardware purchase cause you are not using hardware you are actually using software. Once you nail the software you want work backwards to the hardware. Most people do in fact enjoy playing the occasional game yet hardly anyone would "need" a $4k+ gaming rig. I think your comment about a PC being a toy really is a comment about that being a defenciency of the MACs. Fact is you CAN force a PC to do whatever you want with enough $ and effort. Can't say the same for a MAC like run the current game of the year as a for instance - lol
And as far as building your own I am still to this day PO'ed that I cannot build my own laptop. There has to be some way for this to be done.
KamikaZ said:
PC come in most any color you want, as long as it is beige - lol and real men not only want a beige computer they consider different shades of beige on external components a badge of honor - lol
MACs come in apple green and bubblegum pink or some such stuff, all the colors of the rainbow coalition - nuff said.
The lack of variety in MACs, other than nonfunctional externals, is what allows them to be so useful.
And that is not a knock there are upsides to EVERYBODY running the exact same OS and Apple has used that to their advantage. One of the downsides is that if what you want is not available that is the end of that.
I have heard from several places that it will be possible to make your own MAC with the ease of making your own PC. SK, do you know of a timetable of when it will happen
GoT, you can already customize a MAC, its just really hard to do
GoT, you can already customize a MAC, its just really hard to do
GoT said:
wrong .....
Mac's come in only one color ........ Pearl White
you're thinking of iPod's
maximus said:
I know you asked SK, but I'll chime in. theoretically you could do it now. but it wouldn't be very easy or cheap
not sure what kind of "customizing" a person really needs to do to a Mac
in my case (iMac G5), the entire workings of the computer are slamed into the screen case. there isn't any room to "customize", except for adding more RAM
I assume he's thinking back to the days long ago where the iMacs came in multiple different colors. But yes, now there aren't any choices when it comes to the actual Macs.Puck said:
Starkiller said:
and I'm guessing that's where he's basing his statements on their functionality and performance
It all depends on the model. Mac laptops don't have much room to customize, but that's true of basically all laptops. iMacs are about as customizable as a laptop, but I'd say the difference with that and other desktop PCs is that it's an all-in-one. PC all-in-one models are just the same.Puck said:
I don't think there is much room in the G5 powermac (and future replacement?) fo major customizations. They built it very specifically to optimize cooling and make it quieter than the "wind tunnel" predecessor.
That said, I have an old G3 powermac I got in 1998 that I turned into a server. I have the OS X, which makes a great server OS seeing as how it's unix, running on one drive plus a mirrored RAID using 2 250GB drives and a RAID card.
Not for the forseeable future. Apple has always required you to have specific hardware that you can't buy off the shelf in order to run the Mac OS. It used to be a ROM chip. With the new Intel Macs, I'm not 100% sure what they are using but I believe it is part of Intel's "Trusted Computing" chipset built into the motherboard. I'm sure you won't be able to build your own Mac without this built into the board, and I'm equally sure that Apple won't allow that to be sold to anyone other than themselves.maximus said:
The new Macs are basically standard PC harware except for this minor change. That's why you will be able to load Windows (starting with Windows Vista, probably) on a Mac. But you won't be able to run OS X on just any PC hardware.
OK then, what does the average PC user do that they can't do on a current Mac using either the same software or equivalent Mac software?GoT said:
People who want to build their own computer can use Windows or Linux if they want. More power to them.
Those aren't the people who necessarily would be better off with a Mac (they might, but not in general). The people who would be better off with a Mac are the ones who don't want to tinker too much, they just want to use the software thet comes with a computer and that runs right out of the box.
And that's why Macs are better for the average computer user. Windows is clunky and insecure.
Most people don't play games that can't be found on a Mac. Many do, but not most.
I didn't call a PC a toy. I said it can be used as a toy. My point is that if the only reason that you want a PC over a Mac is games, then you can get a gaming console.
Plus, the toy comment is one of my favorites because for years (long ago), PC people called Macs "toys" because they were much easier to use and easy on the eyes. So, as it seems to me, PCs are the toys because that's where the games are. Serious people could always use the Mac, but if you wanted a toy it was going to be a PC.
Can you force it to be a secure and yet still functional computer without knowing a lot about the inner-workings? No... That's why the Mac is better for most people.
Starkiller said:
I guess I would call "normal" part of the 90+% group. Of course your argument could be flipped completly cause even the specialized apps that the MAC excels at CAN be done on a PC.
Starkiller said:
Agreed
Starkiller said:
One of the things I don't use is Outlook. That thing is a HUGE hacker magnet. Whenever I install Windows - haven't done it since I put XP on my laptop, I never even load Outlook. Easy enough not to use at all. Matter of fact there are numerous Windows components I do not ever install.
Starkiller said:
Again going back to CivIV there seems to be quite a few people, myself included, who like this game. Having said that I have not played it in a few weeks - it is quite a time hog. But I could if I wanted too. I am seriously asking this? Do those EA sports titles come out on the MAC? I do not play them but a bunch of people do.
Starkiller said:
Actually there are a handful of programs that were/are PC only that made it a no brainer for me to go PC, that and the customization aspect.
Starkiller said:
Agreed, except that there are so many programs that take the work aspect
away from being secure. I use Norton's Personal Firewall/Antivirus and Adaware along with Fix-it Utilities. Most of these things run happily in the background and some I just run while I sleep. But I agree there is a certain ammount of disicipline involved with keeping a PC running good. Another point with the whole security issue is the current 3% MAC market share combined with their being a lack of hatred for Jobs vs Gates. I am sure that there are other more technical reasons also.
And you were correct Starkiller I was referencing those older MACs and their color combos. I was not aware that MACs had done away with that bit of personality.
BTW to the best of my knowledge I own no MS or Intel stock I just kinda get annoyed sometimes with the MAC owners holier than thou attitudes.
Mac owners defininitely act cult-like at times. I should know, I am one (Mac user, not cult member...). And I'll freely admit that many people are better off with PCs and that Mcas are far from perfect. I just think that for the average person, Macs are the way to go.
The biggest problems is the security issue. I agree that having good antivirus and firewall and antispyware software makes a big difference. But I can tell you from professional experience that most people are not particularly computer savy. Assuming they can even use their computer well, they have no clue what software they need to keep them secure or how to use it. And when they get a warning saying there could be a problem, they have no idea what to do. It's easy to us, but to them they might as well be asked to build a computer from scratch.
Certainly Apple is somewhat more secure because they aren't a major force in the marketplace. But a lot of it is technological as well. You can't install software that affects the OS on a mac without putting in your password. That alone is a big advantage over Windows. Plus, Microsoft has built so many security holes into Windows over the years versus OS X, it isn't even funny. Not that OS X is an impregnable fortress, but it's far more sturdy.
The biggest problems is the security issue. I agree that having good antivirus and firewall and antispyware software makes a big difference. But I can tell you from professional experience that most people are not particularly computer savy. Assuming they can even use their computer well, they have no clue what software they need to keep them secure or how to use it. And when they get a warning saying there could be a problem, they have no idea what to do. It's easy to us, but to them they might as well be asked to build a computer from scratch.
Certainly Apple is somewhat more secure because they aren't a major force in the marketplace. But a lot of it is technological as well. You can't install software that affects the OS on a mac without putting in your password. That alone is a big advantage over Windows. Plus, Microsoft has built so many security holes into Windows over the years versus OS X, it isn't even funny. Not that OS X is an impregnable fortress, but it's far more sturdy.
WINE on Intel Macs
http://osx86project.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=112&Itemid=2
For those who don't know, WINE was developed as a way to run Windows programs on Linux/UNIX boxes with Intel processors. It is now being ported to run on Intel Macs. It's not emulation, so it runs basically as fast in Linux as programs normally run in Windows.
So Intel Macs will soon be able to run a number of Windows programs as well.
http://osx86project.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=112&Itemid=2
For those who don't know, WINE was developed as a way to run Windows programs on Linux/UNIX boxes with Intel processors. It is now being ported to run on Intel Macs. It's not emulation, so it runs basically as fast in Linux as programs normally run in Windows.
So Intel Macs will soon be able to run a number of Windows programs as well.
I grew up on Mac computers, but I've been using Windows at work and at home for the last several years. Both have their place.
A Macintosh is a thing of beauty. The OS is slick, stable and intuitive. As mentioned before, if you are in certain industries like recording or art, you've got to have a Mac.
Windows is designed for business. Sure, they have a "Home Edition", but it's just a dumbed down spinoff of the Professional business version. The majority of "off the shelf" products designed for business are only available on the Windows platform.
The sheer amount of hardware peripherals and software packages available make it difficult to pass on Windows, even for a basic home user.
SK is exactly right, though, if you want to browse the web, view or listen to digital entertainment, and do basic word processing/spreadsheet stuff, a Macintosh is a good choice.
If interoperability is an issue, for instance if you would like to connect to your desktop PC from home through the server at your office, you'll probably need to go with Windows.
Windows Vista, the replacement for XP will be coming out soon and the screen shots look very Mac like.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/default.aspx
That's what Microsoft has always done, let Apple design and develop something and then steal the best parts of it. I won't get into the philosophical reasoning behind choosing an OS, that would take a book (there probably are several books out there).
I've found that with a small amount of vigilance, spyware, viruses, etc. are easily avoided. Set your computer to automatically install Windows Updates, install the free Microsoft Spyware tool and make sure you have Norton antivirus installed and you'll likely never have an issue. That sounds like a lot of stuff, but it all runs by itself after install.
Both operating systems are very good, you just need to think about what you'll be using your computer to do before making a decision. The real issue is the user, a bad user can make trash out of the best OS.
A Macintosh is a thing of beauty. The OS is slick, stable and intuitive. As mentioned before, if you are in certain industries like recording or art, you've got to have a Mac.
Windows is designed for business. Sure, they have a "Home Edition", but it's just a dumbed down spinoff of the Professional business version. The majority of "off the shelf" products designed for business are only available on the Windows platform.
The sheer amount of hardware peripherals and software packages available make it difficult to pass on Windows, even for a basic home user.
SK is exactly right, though, if you want to browse the web, view or listen to digital entertainment, and do basic word processing/spreadsheet stuff, a Macintosh is a good choice.
If interoperability is an issue, for instance if you would like to connect to your desktop PC from home through the server at your office, you'll probably need to go with Windows.
Windows Vista, the replacement for XP will be coming out soon and the screen shots look very Mac like.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/default.aspx
That's what Microsoft has always done, let Apple design and develop something and then steal the best parts of it. I won't get into the philosophical reasoning behind choosing an OS, that would take a book (there probably are several books out there).
I've found that with a small amount of vigilance, spyware, viruses, etc. are easily avoided. Set your computer to automatically install Windows Updates, install the free Microsoft Spyware tool and make sure you have Norton antivirus installed and you'll likely never have an issue. That sounds like a lot of stuff, but it all runs by itself after install.
Both operating systems are very good, you just need to think about what you'll be using your computer to do before making a decision. The real issue is the user, a bad user can make trash out of the best OS.
Starkiller said:
Once again, Mac pioneers something and Microsoft implements it. I have heard this feature is a part of Vista.
Windows sidebar is the same as the Mac whatever you call it.
Windows the copycat
Windows the copycat
I see that Vista also hijacks Mac's "Spotlight" and "Expose"
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
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