like i said, i wasnt happy with our linebackers going into last years draft either. and i wouldnt say not having an established starter in the middle and someone with average athletic ability coming off of an acl injury is "no worries."Puck said:
i dont know how you've gotten the idea that i want us to trade down for hawk, i havent said that once in this thread. im with you, i want vince.
what i said was, linebacker is more of a concern than safety, and i'll stand by that.
i want vince in the first, BUT if NO takes vince i want to trade down for hawk. i know it's a pipe dream because reese doesnt like taking linebackers in the first round.
what i said was, linebacker is more of a concern than safety, and i'll stand by that.
i want vince in the first, BUT if NO takes vince i want to trade down for hawk. i know it's a pipe dream because reese doesnt like taking linebackers in the first round.
you just seem to be pushing the Hawk thing a tad strong. and you wanted DJ last year. ...... 2+2bigtitan53279 said:
ok, I'll call it a draw - they both need to be addressed. considering LB is a deeper group in this draft than Safety, my guess is that we'll look at Safety first
NO won't take Vince, imo. they'll take Leinart
bigtitan53279 said:
very good
i believe you can adjust your sig then
I'll give you $20 if we draft Hawk from any position within the Top 5
it's the ohio state bias. i've watched him all year and know what he can do.Puck said:
bigtitan53279 said:
he didn't look all that hot against ND in the Fiesta Bowl to me
did I miss something ?
" Hawk, Ohio State's Lombardi Award-winning linebacker and the game's defensive MVP, sacked his girlfriend's brother, Quinn, twice. Hawk also ran down Quinn to stop a third-down play early in the fourth quarter."
also had a handful of tackles, although they dont keep track of them.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?confId=&gameId=260020194
also had a handful of tackles, although they dont keep track of them.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?confId=&gameId=260020194
thats funny, I was just perusing the Google for the recap
thats all it has to say about Hawk
was that he sacked Quinn twice
i rememeber both of those
one was a coverage sack
and the other (i think) Quinn ran right into him and laid down
just kidding
my point is .... he wasn't dominant
someone will overpay him, imo
thats all it has to say about Hawk
was that he sacked Quinn twice
i rememeber both of those
one was a coverage sack
and the other (i think) Quinn ran right into him and laid down
just kidding
my point is .... he wasn't dominant
someone will overpay him, imo
how you like Troy Smith ?
man, if he was coming out this year, I'd pull the trigger
Smith impressed me big time in that game
man, if he was coming out this year, I'd pull the trigger
Smith impressed me big time in that game
they've started to use a lot more shotgun because of his ability to run and their speed at WR. i think he has more arm strength than vince and leinart, but he's only 6 feet tall. he also throws a nice deep ball and he really started to come into his own in the middle of the season.Puck said:
i think if he wasnt suspended for the first game of the season and he started the entire texas @ OSU game, OSU would have won.
he's turned his life around. has about the same background as vince. grew up in the ghetto and used football to turn things around. what some people dont know is he also has somewhat of a relationship with mcnair. he attended mac's passing camp along with vince.
personally, i think he is a better passer than vince, but vince is a better player(if that makes any sense). i dont know if he's a first rounder. i put him in the same category with omar jacobs and brody croyle.
What more could you want in a linebacker than Hawk ? The guy has it all...
Wasn't dominant ? Did you watch the man play this season ? They don't just hand out Lombardi awards...
Wasn't dominant ? Did you watch the man play this season ? They don't just hand out Lombardi awards...
Ok here we go:
The 32 NFL teams and their starting QB from last year (or threw for over 1,000 yards):
Buffalo: Kelly Holcomb (Undrafted) / JP Losman (1/22)
Miami: Gus Frerotte (7)
New England: Tom Brady (6)
NYJ: Brooks Bollinger (6)
Baltimore: Kyle Boller (1/19) / Anthony Wright (Undrafted)
Cincinnati: Carson Palmer (1/1)
Cleveland: Trent Dilfer (1/6) / Charlie Frye (3)
Pittsburgh: Ben Roethlisberger (1/11)
Houston: David Carr (1/1)
Indianapolis: Peyton Manning (1/1)
Jacksonville: Byron Leftwich (1/7) / David Garrard (4)
Tennessee: Steve McNair (1/3)
Denver: Jake Plummer (2)
Kansas City: Trent Green (8/Undrafted in today's game)
Oakland: Kerry Collins (1/5)
San Diego: Drew Brees (2)
Dallas: Drew Bledsoe (1/1)
NYG: Eli Manning (1/1)
Philadelphia: Donovan McNabb (1/2) / Mike McMahon (5)
Washington: Mark Brunell (5)
Chicago: Kyle Orton (4)
Detroit: Joey Harrington (1/3)
Green Bay: Brett Favre (2)
Minnesota: Daunte Culpepper (1/11) / Brad Johnson (9/Undrafted in today's game)
Atlanta: Mike Vick (1/1)
Carolina: Jake Delhomme (Undrafted)
New Orleans: Aaron Brooks (4)
Tampa Bay: Chris Simms (3) / Brian Griese (3)
Arizona: Kurt Warner (Undrafted) / Josh McCown (3)
San Franscisco: None (Alex Smith (1/1) / Tim Rattay (7) / Ken Dorsey (7) / Cody Pickett (7)
Seattle: Matt Hasselbeck (6)
St. Louis: Marc Bulger (6) / Jamie Martin (Undrafted)
That's the entire list of teams with 1,000 yard QBs (enough playing time).
1(1-16): 14
1(17-32): 2
2: 3
3: 4
4: 3
5: 2
6: 4
7: 1
Undrafted (and later none existant rounds): 7
Whilst the numbers do strongly indicate that taking a QB in the first 16 picks is more successful than that outside - you have to look at the FACTS.
Teams give top picks much more chance than they would have at later stages. Mike Vick, Joey Harrington, JP Losman, David Carr?, Kyle Boller to name a few. Then there are the "golden oldies".. the top picks from ages ago who are filling in for teams who are looking to find that new young QB, Kerry Collins and Drew Bledsoe stand out.
Out of the 40 QBs counted, 14 are top 16 picks. That is only 40%.
Since 1997:
Ryan Leaf (1/2)
Tim Couch (1/1)
Akili Smith (1/3)
Cade McNown (1/12)
Whilst not exactly a lot - there are 4 QBs teams wanted to re-build around and got 3 years of nothing back. You may argue that there will at least be 15 QBs selected in later rounds that havn't worked out.. but generally QBs who aren't at that "old age" of trying out (when they were selected later) or in the first round - don't get the opportunity they could thrive in, see Marc Bulger/Tom Brady.
The 32 NFL teams and their starting QB from last year (or threw for over 1,000 yards):
Buffalo: Kelly Holcomb (Undrafted) / JP Losman (1/22)
Miami: Gus Frerotte (7)
New England: Tom Brady (6)
NYJ: Brooks Bollinger (6)
Baltimore: Kyle Boller (1/19) / Anthony Wright (Undrafted)
Cincinnati: Carson Palmer (1/1)
Cleveland: Trent Dilfer (1/6) / Charlie Frye (3)
Pittsburgh: Ben Roethlisberger (1/11)
Houston: David Carr (1/1)
Indianapolis: Peyton Manning (1/1)
Jacksonville: Byron Leftwich (1/7) / David Garrard (4)
Tennessee: Steve McNair (1/3)
Denver: Jake Plummer (2)
Kansas City: Trent Green (8/Undrafted in today's game)
Oakland: Kerry Collins (1/5)
San Diego: Drew Brees (2)
Dallas: Drew Bledsoe (1/1)
NYG: Eli Manning (1/1)
Philadelphia: Donovan McNabb (1/2) / Mike McMahon (5)
Washington: Mark Brunell (5)
Chicago: Kyle Orton (4)
Detroit: Joey Harrington (1/3)
Green Bay: Brett Favre (2)
Minnesota: Daunte Culpepper (1/11) / Brad Johnson (9/Undrafted in today's game)
Atlanta: Mike Vick (1/1)
Carolina: Jake Delhomme (Undrafted)
New Orleans: Aaron Brooks (4)
Tampa Bay: Chris Simms (3) / Brian Griese (3)
Arizona: Kurt Warner (Undrafted) / Josh McCown (3)
San Franscisco: None (Alex Smith (1/1) / Tim Rattay (7) / Ken Dorsey (7) / Cody Pickett (7)
Seattle: Matt Hasselbeck (6)
St. Louis: Marc Bulger (6) / Jamie Martin (Undrafted)
That's the entire list of teams with 1,000 yard QBs (enough playing time).
1(1-16): 14
1(17-32): 2
2: 3
3: 4
4: 3
5: 2
6: 4
7: 1
Undrafted (and later none existant rounds): 7
Whilst the numbers do strongly indicate that taking a QB in the first 16 picks is more successful than that outside - you have to look at the FACTS.
Teams give top picks much more chance than they would have at later stages. Mike Vick, Joey Harrington, JP Losman, David Carr?, Kyle Boller to name a few. Then there are the "golden oldies".. the top picks from ages ago who are filling in for teams who are looking to find that new young QB, Kerry Collins and Drew Bledsoe stand out.
Out of the 40 QBs counted, 14 are top 16 picks. That is only 40%.
Since 1997:
Ryan Leaf (1/2)
Tim Couch (1/1)
Akili Smith (1/3)
Cade McNown (1/12)
Whilst not exactly a lot - there are 4 QBs teams wanted to re-build around and got 3 years of nothing back. You may argue that there will at least be 15 QBs selected in later rounds that havn't worked out.. but generally QBs who aren't at that "old age" of trying out (when they were selected later) or in the first round - don't get the opportunity they could thrive in, see Marc Bulger/Tom Brady.
Those stats are meaningless unless you put in how many picks failed. How many top picks did not make it versus later round picks that did not make it? Otherwise it could (and probably is) largely the case that more qbs are being picked at later rounds (which makes sense becuase there are more picks there.)
Even then I think just basing your analysis on 1000yr seasons is a bit biased toward the offense that play for. (either style or ability)
Even then I think just basing your analysis on 1000yr seasons is a bit biased toward the offense that play for. (either style or ability)
Puck said:
What are you talking about? I was just elaborating on my comment for Troupe4Prez. And it's a no brainer that any Longhorns fan will think Vince Young is the best quarterback in the world.
Puck said:
Well, with the current Titans team he wont ever get to see a playoff game if he doesn't play "like Peyton" the rest of the time.
And what's with the "hate", I'm just saying there's a reason why scouts and GM's go over hours and hours of tape, and not just 2 Rose Bowls.
Edit:
You're probably just still mad I didn't like the new Camaro
)yes trade down and skip over Young. I can see him doing what we have now..practicing 1-2 days a week because he is hurt.
Vigsted said:
what "hate" ?
(this thread is a good example of posters take things out of context)
Puck...aka hawk hater...
You sure have some kind of problem with that guy. You are willing to draft anyone but aj hawk.
Hawk is one of the absolute best players in this draft and might be a better prospect at his position than any other player except bush. Of course drafting him would be an upgrade to our linebacker corps and would help against the run.
You sure have some kind of problem with that guy. You are willing to draft anyone but aj hawk.
Hawk is one of the absolute best players in this draft and might be a better prospect at his position than any other player except bush. Of course drafting him would be an upgrade to our linebacker corps and would help against the run.
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