I'm with you Kami and Carpy, I mean, did we just find out the real reason why he did run the zone step offense? Did Mack Brown take away all of his offense and just put him in the shotgun and run playground ball? He seems like a nice kid, but still, I want someone who can read back there READING defenses and making the important decisions a QB needs to make. And remember, once the play is called, and the guys line up, the speaker in the headset turns off, so he doesn't have anyone telling him what to do.
He probably didn't hear the 2 minute warning. That is when he shines.
PFT also reported that Pacman failed a drug test before the draft, which turned out to be false as well....They report anything and everything.
The only thing Titans fans need to know is how he plays on the football field, not if he can quote Einstein and extrapolate on his theories.
The only thing Titans fans need to know is how he plays on the football field, not if he can quote Einstein and extrapolate on his theories.
McNair scored a 15, which is considered low for a QB. But given his background in a poor family in Mississippi, that may not have been any shock.royhobbs said:
The fact is, the wonderlic doesn't test you to see if you can read defenses or go through progressions. But it does test your general level of education and intelligence (you can have raw intelligence and not have a decent education).
Can a guy who can't score higher than a 6 hope to learn an NFL offense? Texas had to simplify their offense for Vince Young to succeed. To me, this just gives teams more of a moment of pause when it comes to evaluating Young's ability to be an NFL QB. The wonderlic isn't everything, but it does hit him where the questions about his ability are the biggest.
i remember michael irvin saying one day " all of those balls i caught at miami, and they're asking me these questions?! i just put answers down."Titans2008 said:
Part of being educated is having enough discipline to make it a priority to educate yourself. Every qb that takes the Wonderlic test has had an opportunity to take it upon themselves to get an education. If someone makes a 6, it may mean that they just aren't very intelligent. Or it could mean that they're lazy. I don't like handing millions of dollars in guaranteed signing bonus to someone that's lazy.
Personally, if he made a 6, I would prefer that he be an idiot.
Personally, if he made a 6, I would prefer that he be an idiot.
i thought it was when the play clock gets to ten, but it doesnt matter regardless.Jwill1919 said:
But can he call the play while counting down from 10 to 0 on his fingers? :ha:
PFT is now reporting their initial rumor of the 6 as having been "confirmed".
Starkiller said:
What the hell does that have any reference about anyways. Wouldn't you rather him checking off or trying to figure out the defense in front of him. I think he can count though. What not to like about a winner and find me the evidence that Texas had to waterdown their Offense so he could understand it.
Disreguarding all my previous comments - It would be embarassing to put a guy out there who absoutly could NOT read the D - Kordell Stewart. That guy was a loser preciesly because he could not read the D. He made the occasional play, but he was a big bad play waiting to happen and usually it was not too long of a wait.
I'm making fun of him for being dumb (j-o-k-e).metal957 said:
Oh, well, let's just sign Danny Wuerffel, Eric Crouch, and Jason White while we're at it, then...
http://www.sportsline.com/spin/story/9260509
"One long-time NFL scout told El Hombre that a Longhorns coach said Young just couldn't do it. That's why the Steers went with the offense they used in '06. Instead of asking Young to drop back and work through his available targets, they simplified things for him."
Qualifiers
Ok guys and dolls a few qualifiers with this new information.
A lot ppl probably know by now my fav qb pick in this draft, however I dont think everyone needs to take this new test of Young's and run to the hills (so to speak).
First of all. The wonderlic is probably an aptitude test not an IQ test. Meaning it measures achievement not necessairy intelligence. An IQ test cannot have a ceiling and the type of questions in the test are not indicative of an iq test. (I double-checked this with my wife who is a School Psychologist. Both of us have social science graduate degrees). His score on such a test would be related to what his score would be on a an iq test, but it wouldnt be the same thing.
One thing this means is that the test is most likely heavily culturely(sp?) biased. (which explains why mcnabb, culpepper, and mcnair all have similiar scores.)
Having said that Vince scored less than all of those. So if I had to make a guess about his intelligence I woudl say it is just a bit below average. Speculation isnt really a good thing to do here, but thats what these boards are for so...
So now if scores of Lienhart and Cutler come out to be in the mid twenties I would say they are about average and if they score in mid to low teens then they COULD be on par with Young. If one or both score in the 30's or higher once could say they are a coupe of notches above Young. All of this is really speculative and not really how the test scores are supposed to be used.
The next question is how does this relate to qb success. There are strong arguments in both directions. IMO I think it would depend on the type of offense the team was trying to use. If we were using offenses similiar to those we have used in the past then Young may do just fine. However, if we were going to try to implement an offense with all the options that Peyton has then I think Young would definitly struggle. So I'll leave it up to the indivual to determine how Young would fair with Chow/Fisher. Personally, I can see arguements either way.
To say that this test result wont hurt him I think is foolish. In the same vein, to say this result will drop him out of the 1rst round is equally foolish. Personally, I will still be surprised if he drops out of the top 10. Though I doubt he will be taken in the top 5...
:hmm:
Ok guys and dolls a few qualifiers with this new information.
A lot ppl probably know by now my fav qb pick in this draft, however I dont think everyone needs to take this new test of Young's and run to the hills (so to speak).
First of all. The wonderlic is probably an aptitude test not an IQ test. Meaning it measures achievement not necessairy intelligence. An IQ test cannot have a ceiling and the type of questions in the test are not indicative of an iq test. (I double-checked this with my wife who is a School Psychologist. Both of us have social science graduate degrees). His score on such a test would be related to what his score would be on a an iq test, but it wouldnt be the same thing.
One thing this means is that the test is most likely heavily culturely(sp?) biased. (which explains why mcnabb, culpepper, and mcnair all have similiar scores.)
Having said that Vince scored less than all of those. So if I had to make a guess about his intelligence I woudl say it is just a bit below average. Speculation isnt really a good thing to do here, but thats what these boards are for so...
So now if scores of Lienhart and Cutler come out to be in the mid twenties I would say they are about average and if they score in mid to low teens then they COULD be on par with Young. If one or both score in the 30's or higher once could say they are a coupe of notches above Young. All of this is really speculative and not really how the test scores are supposed to be used.
The next question is how does this relate to qb success. There are strong arguments in both directions. IMO I think it would depend on the type of offense the team was trying to use. If we were using offenses similiar to those we have used in the past then Young may do just fine. However, if we were going to try to implement an offense with all the options that Peyton has then I think Young would definitly struggle. So I'll leave it up to the indivual to determine how Young would fair with Chow/Fisher. Personally, I can see arguements either way.
To say that this test result wont hurt him I think is foolish. In the same vein, to say this result will drop him out of the 1rst round is equally foolish. Personally, I will still be surprised if he drops out of the top 10. Though I doubt he will be taken in the top 5...
:hmm:
Ok I am done with this. I believe the guy could get the job after a year on the bench and watching Big Mc. We all have our opinions and that is why this is a forum so we all will have to wait till April to find out what will happen.
Prag....
Why not look up what the wonderlic is rather than say what you think it might be?
A description.
"Used by a variety of employers, the Wonderlic Personnel Test (WPT) is a general test of problem solving ability that many consider to be the best measure of intelligence."
So yes it is an intelligence test. Not an apptitude test.
Why not look up what the wonderlic is rather than say what you think it might be?
A description.
"Used by a variety of employers, the Wonderlic Personnel Test (WPT) is a general test of problem solving ability that many consider to be the best measure of intelligence."
So yes it is an intelligence test. Not an apptitude test.
The wonderlic...
The average score is 20.8. So normal in my mind would be maybe 15-25. Anything better than 25 is smart anything below 15 is suspect. Under no circumstances would i use the third pick in the entire draft on a guy with a score lower than 10. 6 is downright horrible.
Assuming it is true of course that young really scored that low. While the wonderlic alone doesn't predict future success it is a tool like many others. For a QB to score a 6 is like a WR running a 4.9 40, or an o-lineman only doing 6 reps of 225 lbs.
Some score examples
Rothlisberger-25
Eli manning-39
Byron leftwich-25
Mcnabb-18
Peyton manning-28
Mcnair-15
The average score is 20.8. So normal in my mind would be maybe 15-25. Anything better than 25 is smart anything below 15 is suspect. Under no circumstances would i use the third pick in the entire draft on a guy with a score lower than 10. 6 is downright horrible.
Assuming it is true of course that young really scored that low. While the wonderlic alone doesn't predict future success it is a tool like many others. For a QB to score a 6 is like a WR running a 4.9 40, or an o-lineman only doing 6 reps of 225 lbs.
Some score examples
Rothlisberger-25
Eli manning-39
Byron leftwich-25
Mcnabb-18
Peyton manning-28
Mcnair-15
From ESPN
This assessment roughly corresponds to the averages revealed, according to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, by an NFL personnel man in Paul Zimmerman's "The New Thinking man's Guide to Pro Football," which are:
Offensive tackles: 26
Centers: 25
Quarterbacks: 24
Guards: 23
Tight Ends: 22
Safeties: 19
Middle linebackers: 19
Cornerbacks: 18
Wide receivers: 17
Fullbacks: 17
Halfbacks: 16
The average scores in other professions look like this:
Chemist: 31
Programmer: 29
Newswriter: 26
Sales: 24
Bank teller: 22
Clerical Worker: 21
Security Guard: 17
Warehouse: 15
Ready to try your hand at it? Click here to take the test.
This assessment roughly corresponds to the averages revealed, according to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, by an NFL personnel man in Paul Zimmerman's "The New Thinking man's Guide to Pro Football," which are:
Offensive tackles: 26
Centers: 25
Quarterbacks: 24
Guards: 23
Tight Ends: 22
Safeties: 19
Middle linebackers: 19
Cornerbacks: 18
Wide receivers: 17
Fullbacks: 17
Halfbacks: 16
The average scores in other professions look like this:
Chemist: 31
Programmer: 29
Newswriter: 26
Sales: 24
Bank teller: 22
Clerical Worker: 21
Security Guard: 17
Warehouse: 15
Ready to try your hand at it? Click here to take the test.
Looking at the test...
If there is a cultural difference for players taking this test it would be in reading skills and arithmetic. You have to be able to read carefully and with comprehension to understand and answer these questions. They give you 4 pairs of names and ask you how many match. The ones that don't match are only different in one or two letters. So you do have to read well and you have to be patient enough to read the questions more than once to make sure what is being asked.
It's not that the questions themselves are culturally biased but that a person's educational background does matter. We all know that athletes can fudge their way through high school and even college with poor reading skills. Well they will be exposed with this test.
If there is a cultural difference for players taking this test it would be in reading skills and arithmetic. You have to be able to read carefully and with comprehension to understand and answer these questions. They give you 4 pairs of names and ask you how many match. The ones that don't match are only different in one or two letters. So you do have to read well and you have to be patient enough to read the questions more than once to make sure what is being asked.
It's not that the questions themselves are culturally biased but that a person's educational background does matter. We all know that athletes can fudge their way through high school and even college with poor reading skills. Well they will be exposed with this test.
How not to interpret data...
Look at prag's graduate school approach to a 6 score on the wonderlic.
According to prag a 6 score is "a bit below average".
According tp preg a mid 20s score is average..
" So now if scores of Lienhart and Cutler come out to be in the mid twenties I would say they are about average".
So here you have a self proclaimed stat guy making up parameters out of thin air as to how we should consider players. An educated guess? Maybe but still a guess.
All one needs to do is to is do a little reasearch to know what the wonderlic test is, what the objective of the test is and why the nfl might use it. Anyone can take a sample test to see exactly what kind of questions are on this test. So why waste a long post speculating?
This can't be an intelligence test because it has a ceiling? Huh? You answer 50 questions and your score is how many you got right. Is that a major problem having too many players maxing out on this test? All the nfl wants to know is whether a guy is smart or not.
I don't like to call anyone a racist but assuming that a playuer will automatically score lower just because he is black is knocking on that door.
Look at prag's graduate school approach to a 6 score on the wonderlic.
According to prag a 6 score is "a bit below average".
According tp preg a mid 20s score is average..
" So now if scores of Lienhart and Cutler come out to be in the mid twenties I would say they are about average".
So here you have a self proclaimed stat guy making up parameters out of thin air as to how we should consider players. An educated guess? Maybe but still a guess.
All one needs to do is to is do a little reasearch to know what the wonderlic test is, what the objective of the test is and why the nfl might use it. Anyone can take a sample test to see exactly what kind of questions are on this test. So why waste a long post speculating?
This can't be an intelligence test because it has a ceiling? Huh? You answer 50 questions and your score is how many you got right. Is that a major problem having too many players maxing out on this test? All the nfl wants to know is whether a guy is smart or not.
I don't like to call anyone a racist but assuming that a playuer will automatically score lower just because he is black is knocking on that door.
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