My point is that it leaked out (not a pun... really...) that he had violated the substance abuse policy and we know he failed a test. This despite the fact that the NFL doesn't release such info (like the wonderlic results).TitanJeff said:
Charlie Casserly, Houston Texans GM, at the podium behind myself and Matt right now. One of the first questions? Did Vince Young really score a six on the Wonerlic?
According to Casserly, who referred to a 'reliable source,' it's a definite no. Young did not score a six on the Wonderlic.
So that's the latest.
http://www.atlantafalcons.com/team/article.jsp?id=6921
Looks like it's an attempt to make Vince look bad.
According to Casserly, who referred to a 'reliable source,' it's a definite no. Young did not score a six on the Wonderlic.
So that's the latest.
http://www.atlantafalcons.com/team/article.jsp?id=6921
Looks like it's an attempt to make Vince look bad.
Man, he couldn't even score a 6? It's even worse than we thought... :ha:
I thought the NFL had released that info. I found this just now:Starkiller said:
"Two different news sources are reporting that Dolphins running back Ricky Williams has failed a drug test, though team and league officials have not confirmed the reports."
Now it's looking like it may have been a mistake. Sheesh.
"Houston Texans general manager Charley Casserly said at the NFL Combine Sunday, Feb. 26, he had heard about Texas QB Vince Young's score on the Wonderlic test. He also said he heard from a good source that the test results were inaccurate. 'Yes, I have been told it was inaccurate, by a source good enough for me to stand up here and quote it. Otherwise I wouldn't get up here and just say it,' said Casserly."
And the same BS rag which "broke" the story now says it was a mistake.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
The funny thing is Florio claimed the Tennessean "corroborated the reports" when it only said "word outside began to spread that Young scored a six on the Wonderlic test given to prospects."
"Houston Texans general manager Charley Casserly said at the NFL Combine Sunday, Feb. 26, he had heard about Texas QB Vince Young's score on the Wonderlic test. He also said he heard from a good source that the test results were inaccurate. 'Yes, I have been told it was inaccurate, by a source good enough for me to stand up here and quote it. Otherwise I wouldn't get up here and just say it,' said Casserly."
And the same BS rag which "broke" the story now says it was a mistake.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
The funny thing is Florio claimed the Tennessean "corroborated the reports" when it only said "word outside began to spread that Young scored a six on the Wonderlic test given to prospects."
TitanJeff said:
This is getting weird. You can't mess up grading a Wonderlic and definately not in a way that yields a score of 6. Secondly I'm assuming the recycle the test for several of the athlestes, and if it was a problem with the test others should have had low numbers too.
If he does not care about the wonderlic, how many things does he care about than the dollar signs?
The score would give me serious pause to picking him third....at the least it means he does not take things seriously when he cannot see the value in them....you do have to do more in the nfl at that position that run well and throw from strange side arm motions.
The score would give me serious pause to picking him third....at the least it means he does not take things seriously when he cannot see the value in them....you do have to do more in the nfl at that position that run well and throw from strange side arm motions.
I'm sure a lot will come out on this tomorrow but it appears everyone in that group was scored wrong.Vigsted said:
ProfootballTalk is the People Magazine of the NFL...wait too good...The National Enquirer...again...to good....
The Weekly World News of Football. The one with Bat Boy on the cover.
The Weekly World News of Football. The one with Bat Boy on the cover.
Prag..
Yes more rolltide venom.
1. You made extensive comments about the wonderlic test that were not true. Instead of taking 2 minutes to actually investigate what the test is and what it is for you jumped to comclusions that were not true.
2. You instantly married the idea of vince young maybe scoring horribly on this test with the fact he happens to be black. As if sucking on this test and being black go hand in hand. You instantly deemed the test racially biased, again without even knowing a thing about this test. Then you came up with some non scientific off the top of your head handicapping situation in which a 25 score for a white guy(lienart, cutler) would be average but a horrible 6 score for a black guy is just a "bit below average".
3. You made no comparative judgements. Since the worst score ever for QB prospect was a 10 a 6 score could never just be a bit below aaverage for anyone. We know that a 15-16 type score is not that bad because there have been very successful QB prospects who scored in that range. But as starkiller said there is a whole lot of difference between a 15 score and a 6.
Finally i like how you lump people together like cattle. Mcnair came from a town of 800 people in mississippi, mcnabb came from chicago and attended a first rate catholic high school. But their cultural experieces are the same?:sad2:
Yes more rolltide venom.
1. You made extensive comments about the wonderlic test that were not true. Instead of taking 2 minutes to actually investigate what the test is and what it is for you jumped to comclusions that were not true.
2. You instantly married the idea of vince young maybe scoring horribly on this test with the fact he happens to be black. As if sucking on this test and being black go hand in hand. You instantly deemed the test racially biased, again without even knowing a thing about this test. Then you came up with some non scientific off the top of your head handicapping situation in which a 25 score for a white guy(lienart, cutler) would be average but a horrible 6 score for a black guy is just a "bit below average".
3. You made no comparative judgements. Since the worst score ever for QB prospect was a 10 a 6 score could never just be a bit below aaverage for anyone. We know that a 15-16 type score is not that bad because there have been very successful QB prospects who scored in that range. But as starkiller said there is a whole lot of difference between a 15 score and a 6.
Finally i like how you lump people together like cattle. Mcnair came from a town of 800 people in mississippi, mcnabb came from chicago and attended a first rate catholic high school. But their cultural experieces are the same?:sad2:
http://nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cfm?section=7&screen=news&news_id=48119
I think you can say this rumor is officially dead.
I think you can say this rumor is officially dead.
RollTide said:
If anyone else has any questions about this please let me know; I'll be happy to address them. I dont feel like getting into some pissing contest. Please let me know if anyone else would like me to back up any of my previous statements regarding the wonderlic. Thanks.
)So he scored poorly on the first one, took it again and scored a 16. Sounds like damage control to me.
Poor prag...
Got himself into a "pissing contest". Of course this isn't that at all.
You admitted you were wrong
"It may not be aptitude, reading the description and looking at it deeper this morning. It is looking at problem solving ability. Thats also not iq, which is my point. But you're right it probably isnt aptitude. (I have no problem acknowleding mistakes. )
I'm glad you looked into it "deeper" which really means you looked into it at all.
I wouldn't be so hard on you if you didn't come across as some arrogant expert. This is not pure science, the nfl is simply trying to get all the data they can to make the most educated decisions.
We all know the wonderlic is just a 50 question test not a comprehensive IQ exam like the stanford-binet. Still the nfl uses that test and choose that test so we have to consider that.
Got himself into a "pissing contest". Of course this isn't that at all.
You admitted you were wrong
"It may not be aptitude, reading the description and looking at it deeper this morning. It is looking at problem solving ability. Thats also not iq, which is my point. But you're right it probably isnt aptitude. (I have no problem acknowleding mistakes. )
I'm glad you looked into it "deeper" which really means you looked into it at all.
I wouldn't be so hard on you if you didn't come across as some arrogant expert. This is not pure science, the nfl is simply trying to get all the data they can to make the most educated decisions.
We all know the wonderlic is just a 50 question test not a comprehensive IQ exam like the stanford-binet. Still the nfl uses that test and choose that test so we have to consider that.
What is interesting is the test is multiple choice which means a player could just select A every time and score better than a 6.
I'm more worried about Young playing at Texas for 3 years and still they had to "simplify" the offense because he couldn't handle the normal Texas offense. That says enough to me. In the NFL it will be tougher and more complex with better athletes on the defense and better coaches disguising the defense.
I'm more worried about Young playing at Texas for 3 years and still they had to "simplify" the offense because he couldn't handle the normal Texas offense. That says enough to me. In the NFL it will be tougher and more complex with better athletes on the defense and better coaches disguising the defense.
RollTide said:
That post wasn't dripping with venom.
Look Tide,
I've got not prob admitting mistakes. I do make them. Especially on a messageboard where I can post supposition and speculaiton. I'm not trying to write a paper for publication.
As far as comming off as an arrogant expert. If I come off that way I appologize to you and anyone else here. I do have some expertise in the social sciences. I try to share that expertise here if I can.
There are also a lot of things that I don't know. I dont know much about OLine. Which in my post asking about them I said as much and openly asked for input.
As far as these tests go, I do have some expertise. When it comes to the "racial remarks" as you have deemed them, my comments were backed up by precedent- not racism. Standardized tests have a history of being culturally biased. So that two individuals of equal intelliengence but different racial/cultural backgrounds come out with systematically different scores. This has happened on IQ tests, aptitude tests, and achievement tests. Its even led ppl in the past to make some serious faulty conclusions about the differences in ability between different racial groups. I was just commenting that could be happening on the Wonderlic, because I saw a group of individuals who I would guess were of at least average intelligence scoring lower than the average. Now they were right about one standard deviation of the mean, so that increased my sense that something systemic was happening.
You've also challenged my effort in researching the wonderlic. On one hand you're right. I didn't do a lot of research on my first post. It was around midnight and rumor had just gotten out. I was a bit excited and all the posters were calling VY an idiot. Even if he scored badly on this test he wouldn't be an idiot. But you're right in that I posted something hasty. I thought, since this is a messageboard not a publication, that would be ok...obviously not.
Lastly, I didn't do a lot of research on the wonderlic because the type of research that would really help is not available on the internet. Who it has been normed on, what did it correlate with, who designed it, etc etc. That information I would have to get from large libraries- I dont care that much. The information that was available was the marketing page of the consulting company. As a rule I tend to ignore those. But you found some solid info there- cool. Messageboard, discussion- the process does work.
Lastly, I really enjoy good debates. I like your arguements because they are well thought out- but just leave out the inflammatory stuff. Its just irritating, because then i dont feel like debating the topic. Thanks for your posts.
)Bottom line is if the NFL standard test confused him, almost a certainty that standard NFL defenses will also. He'll have to use his athleticism to bail out and/or make plays. He'll make a few plays but we'd only get about 5-6 years out of him before he's broken down.
I was high on Young, now I'd be have to be high to use the #3 pick on him. Start the Cutler hype, get jets (or someone else) to trade up so they can get Cutler and get our 3rd round pick back. Or take Cutler ourselves.
I was high on Young, now I'd be have to be high to use the #3 pick on him. Start the Cutler hype, get jets (or someone else) to trade up so they can get Cutler and get our 3rd round pick back. Or take Cutler ourselves.
We don't know that the test confused him. It was proven to either be scored wrong or was a baseless rumor in the first place. Either way, to judge him by this rumor is wrong.Riverman said:
As to NFL defenses confusing him, every QB making the transition from the college game to the pro one has trouble at first. The question is whether or not Young can make the transition in time. I've not seen anything to indicate he can't.
I keep hearing how the Texas offense was dumbed down to suit Young. Funny how such a simple offense was so effective. It makes you wonder how dumb the defensive minds of the Big 12 must be to not stop such a simple offense. Pete Carroll must lose sleep at night wondering how he couldn't find the answers either.
Seems the Titans did the same thing when Chow came in to help the younger guys grasp it better. Schwartz did the same. I guess that means the current roster lacks the mental abilities to to run more complicated schemes?
Sometimes, coaches are bright enough to know less can mean more.
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