rcarie said:
Our "Genius" defensive staff, most notably our DC, hasn't produced a limp turd out of our last 4 drafts. So you're telling me that everyone of our drafted defenders aren't football players. I can understand 1 or 2 a year, but c'mon, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. This is going on five years now that we haven't gotten a bit of potential out of our drafted defenders, and even the ones we've had don't seem to be making any progress, but lest regressing. I know that Bulluck is a stud, and it helps to be surrounded by a better supporting cast, but man is this dude not being utilized to the fullest. I blame that on the DC..:sad2: You can't blame Reese, because he is there to analyze talent, that being said, these guys aren't any better than when they left the combine. Everyone of our defenders consistently has less production each year, Bulluck, Tank, Lamont, Boiman, you name 'em. Our DC doesn't know his personnel, he tries to run a certain scheme, not run a scheme that will produce the best results with his current players, nor put them in the best position to succeed.
Jwill,
I could not have said it better myself. I totally agree.
Rcarie,
Two years from now if the offense isn't improved then I will say the exact same thing about Chow. I honestly get the impression from him that can and will fix the problems on offense. That said I think he did a decent job considering he had never coached in the NFL before. It was not like he was a QB coach on the NFL level then became a OC. I think he did a better coaching job than Schwartz and he has been in the league for how many years? and a DC for how many? Chow did an excellent job developing young players. I think that the B Jones and the other rookie receivers did well and I think a lot of that had to do with Chow teaching them as well as their WR coach. Next year I think you will see exponential improvement from the O. The offense did continue to get better despite losing Mason during the off season, despite Bennett going down, despite Troupe and Kinney missing time. I believe Chow will fix the communication problems, the false starts, the penalties, the drop balls. Chow has the potential to be a great OC like the NE OC that went to Notre Dame. I say that because he is a detailed oriented coach. Schwartz isn't detail oriented, i.e. missed tackles etc. Chow will better understand NFL defenses and will be able to do something that Schwartz can't do which is make in game adjustments.
I could not have said it better myself. I totally agree.
Rcarie,
Two years from now if the offense isn't improved then I will say the exact same thing about Chow. I honestly get the impression from him that can and will fix the problems on offense. That said I think he did a decent job considering he had never coached in the NFL before. It was not like he was a QB coach on the NFL level then became a OC. I think he did a better coaching job than Schwartz and he has been in the league for how many years? and a DC for how many? Chow did an excellent job developing young players. I think that the B Jones and the other rookie receivers did well and I think a lot of that had to do with Chow teaching them as well as their WR coach. Next year I think you will see exponential improvement from the O. The offense did continue to get better despite losing Mason during the off season, despite Bennett going down, despite Troupe and Kinney missing time. I believe Chow will fix the communication problems, the false starts, the penalties, the drop balls. Chow has the potential to be a great OC like the NE OC that went to Notre Dame. I say that because he is a detailed oriented coach. Schwartz isn't detail oriented, i.e. missed tackles etc. Chow will better understand NFL defenses and will be able to do something that Schwartz can't do which is make in game adjustments.
Let me get this straight.MsTitan said:
You think Chow is detail-oriented despite the drops, false starts, etc. but Schwartz isn't because of the missed tackles?
Time will tell? if this goes on for a couple of years, Chow's head is next.
Chow hasn't developed anyone yet. Our offense was a complete mess all year. I don't see how you make excuses for Chow when he clearly has had a worse year than Schwartz has ever had. That being said, I think he is a few players away from puting it together, as is Schwartz. How do you know anything about Schwartz being detail oriented?? You've never met him or spent anytime with the team. I guess Chow isn't detail oriented cause our recievers couldn't catch a pass all year. He needs to get on the ball. You seem to have this notion that a coordinator should get a year pass to develop... I've never heard of that before.MsTitan said:
so would you say he isnt being utilized the way he should be?Starkiller said:
I'd say he doesn't seems to have the skills to fit what we want to do on defense. He'd be a better fit for a defense where he's allowed to blitz more and play up closer to the line.
i remember when i was @ the carolina game back in '03 and lamont absolutely knocked the crap out of one of their WR's(i want to say it was muhammad), i mean good lord he killed him lol, to say the least the guy was on the ground for a while....
and then also when tank killed manning which turned into a bulluck TD, that was great also lol
i mean yea this way a down year for both of them but if you look @ it, tank was coming off the acl which usually takes a full year or more to completely recover and play at a high level and actually this was lamont's first full year of starting, so i wouldn't write the both of them off quite yet even though i do like fuller a lot and what he brings to the table...
and then also when tank killed manning which turned into a bulluck TD, that was great also lol
i mean yea this way a down year for both of them but if you look @ it, tank was coming off the acl which usually takes a full year or more to completely recover and play at a high level and actually this was lamont's first full year of starting, so i wouldn't write the both of them off quite yet even though i do like fuller a lot and what he brings to the table...
rcarie said:
I don't understand you at all.. You defend Schwartz all the time for not having the talented players and say that once he gets talented players, that he will make it work, and then you criticize Chow because he didn't lead the league offensively his FIRST year as a Pro coach. Isn't this some serious hippocracy? Blame the recievers for not catching the ball, blame McNair for not having any rhythm in the passing game due to not practicing, and blame Schwartz for not utilizing his players correctly. Crap, i'll make it all work once I win the lottery, but until then, I'm going to make due with what I have and not use excuses like "I don't have any talented players". That's just a total cop-out, because we know there is some talent on this team defensively, it just isn't being developed.
Now I don't think Chow lit the world on fire, but let's see, CB is a skirt-wearing teenage girl, Travis Henry missed 4+ games due to drugs, McNair is the Allen Iverson of the NFL(refuses to practice[not badmouthing AI because he has the biggest heart in the NBA]and doesn't produce like he would if he did practice) Drew Bennett missed a couple of games with surgery, and the other recievers were rookies. I'm not making excuses for Chow, but in my opinion he did a lot better job coaching up the Offense than Schwartz did coaching up the D in just his first year. No significant injuries to this D and they still look like the core hasn't improved in 4 years.:sad2:
You can badmouth MsTitan all you want for being a girl/woman, but realize that the one person you are defending the most is the one who has turned the identity of this defense into one as well(girl).:grrr:
The hippocracy is my point.. Everybody wants to rip Shwartz when he wasn't even the worst coordinator we had last year. You want to defend Chow for the same reasons that you put down Schwartz. I don't understand you.Jwill1919 said:
My point again exactly. Not utilizing his players correctly? Did Chow utilize his players??? Once again, you blame Schwartz for everything wrong that happens on D and you blame individual players when it comes to the O. So, which is it ?
Other than Bulluck, Hayneswortth, and KVB I don't know who your talking about (at least on D). We have good young talent but just like you want to give Chow time to learn the NFL than I think the same rules should apply to Players; don't you?
You think.:suspect:
Exceuses, excuses, excuses..... I could say the same thing about the D which is also true. If you'll remember all the injuries last year. But if some one says that about the D than its an "excuse". Who's the hypocrite now?
Are you being serious? The only players that were even here (on D) four years ago were Bulluck, who didn't even start four years ago, (they thought he needed time to develop. Funny Huh??) and Peter Sirmon. And when you say "no significant injuries", I'm assuming you were in a different country last year.
rcarie said:
Yes, Chow did utilize his personnel. How else do you explain the fantastic season by the TE's. The problem offensively was mostly due to a veteran O-line underperforming.
Schwartz on the other hand has had several years to implement his system and half of the players (12) have had 3 or more years experience with it, 8 were second year players and 5 were rookies (including KVB).
In the starting lineup the distribution was 6 players with +3 years experience, 2 with 2 years and 3 rookies (KVB included). You'd expect them to perform better.
RCarie, you make my head hurt when debating. As I said, I wasn't making any excuses for Chow, I still feel he did a better job in his first year than Schwartz did in his 5th. I also said if this happens again with our offense, I will be calling for Chow's head, just as I am Schwartz'.
As for players that have been here 4+ years on D; Beckham, Boiman, Bulluck, Haynesworth, Kassell, Long, Sirmon, Lamont, Tank.
When I say no significant injuries, did we have any this year besides losing Haynesworth for his usual 1-4 games, was that any surprise anyway? Did our best defensive player get hurt(Bulluck)? Did we have a season ending injury to one of our main Corners?? did we lose a safety? did we lose our best pass rusher? the only players that contribute on this team defensively are new players that haven't been poisoned by Schwartz.
************************REMINDER*************************
If Chow blows like this for 2 more years, I will be the first to call for his head. How much time do you think Schwartz deserves showing no progress and not being able to develop a single draft pick? I don't think he should be able to hurt this team any further, but that is just my opinion.
As for players that have been here 4+ years on D; Beckham, Boiman, Bulluck, Haynesworth, Kassell, Long, Sirmon, Lamont, Tank.
When I say no significant injuries, did we have any this year besides losing Haynesworth for his usual 1-4 games, was that any surprise anyway? Did our best defensive player get hurt(Bulluck)? Did we have a season ending injury to one of our main Corners?? did we lose a safety? did we lose our best pass rusher? the only players that contribute on this team defensively are new players that haven't been poisoned by Schwartz.
************************REMINDER*************************
If Chow blows like this for 2 more years, I will be the first to call for his head. How much time do you think Schwartz deserves showing no progress and not being able to develop a single draft pick? I don't think he should be able to hurt this team any further, but that is just my opinion.
They were the only ones that Mcnair trusted to throw to. Do you think all those plays are designed to go to the TE. That must be why we throw the ball 5yds to a TE on third down when we need 8 or 9 yards. Had we had one single reciever that was worth a squirt of piss I'd say the TE's wouldn't have had, what you would say to be, a good year.Vigsted said:
13 players in their 1st or 2nd year haven't had much time to learn any system. I can't believe none of them went to the pro-bowl.
You say you don't make excuses but yet you have an entire paragraph of excuses in you post. You can go back and look for yourself and tell me you aren't making excuses. Sure looks that way.Jwill1919 said:
[
bulluck4dMVP said:
You are my 2nd new best friend. No, wait, 3rd new best friend.
)IMHO anyone trying to say Schwartz gets the most out of what talent his players have is barking up the wrong tree. Certainly we have issues on both ends, coaching and talent. Still, Swartz doesn't impress me as a DC that can make the right calls at the right times during a game and his schemes are not something to write home about. Our defense NEVER plays with much of an attitude either and we always seem to be back on our heels instead of dictating the game.
elfinmagic53 said:You are my 2nd new best friend. No, wait, 3rd new best friend.
haha aight man
I don't think anyone is saying Schwartz is getting the most out of his players I'm just saying there's more to it then just him. He isn't the entire reason for our D, sucking. He can certainly improve as can the rest of the team. Fisher needs to see to it that there are improvements made. Its on his shoulders.
elfinmagic53 said:You are my 2nd new best friend. No, wait, 3rd new best friend.
As long as I stay #1. :brow:
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