Titans Talk - Home for all things Tennessee Titans

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If the defense plays heartless isnt that more on the GM and HC than the DC? Its Reeses job to get talented guys in here, and its Schwarts job to coach them. But if Reese is drafting heartless guys then there is no way to expect Schwartz to all of a sudden inspire them. Like I said, we have been a contender under Schwartz, but when cap mismanagement strips him of any resemblence of talent, then blame Reese, who has not drafted well the last few years it seems to me.

You're basically saying that if Schwartz had a defence of All-Pro's he would be good... well duh!! What makes a good coach is the ability to make good players out of average material.

I looked a little at the avg. of starters on the Colts defence and they compare pretty well to the Titans:
Titans: 2.5 years experience, 2.6 round pick + 2 free agents + 1 UDFA
Colts: 3 years experience, 2.7 round pick + 2 free agents + 1 UDFA

So either we draft crappy players consistently or we just don't get enough out of them.

 

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This is another one of my major problems. Reese is a TALENT EVALUATOR, not a coach, he is just supposed to grab quality athletes and players and let the coaching staff mold them into NFL football players by utiliizing their strengths and disguising their weaknesses. Schwartz utilizes only our players weaknesses, like having Tank in coverage and Lamont up in the box? If you have watched the Washington Redskins all year, the only real players they have on D are Sean Taylor and Arrington(who sat for half the year), yet they get the most out of each and everyone of their players. Who is Ryan Clark, I couldn't even name 5 guys on that defense. It's all about maximizing your players production, Schwartz does a horrible job of this(it is in fact his job to put his players in the most opportune positions since he draws up these elaborate schemes[that suck no less])

We DO have talent on that side of the ball, we just aren't realizing the potential due to BAD coaching.

I'm not giving Chow a pass on this season's offense, but to fire someone after one year is not fair. Fire him in year 3, i'm fine with that if this offense doesn't progress. All I see out of this defense is regression, so fire Jimmy S.:hmm: He doesn't have the superb talent he once had, maybe, but these past couple of years could've been his showcase of how good a coach he really is by getting more out of his players instead of consistently getting LESS.

Chow gets no free pass, none of the coaches do, but when is enough? My enough meter is full of getting the ball run down my throat. Jimmy S must like deepthroat movies.:banned:

Where is all this talent you speak of, because I honestly dont see it. Sure Pac Man and Hill show flashes, but you arent going to get consistent play out of 2 rookie corners, with one having missed training camp, and the other being a 7th round pick. I think it is incredibley naive to expect our corners to have been good this year, no matter who is coaching them. Our LBs are slow and average at best, with the exception of Bulluck of course. And our S simply couldnt tackle all year, now I know you guys blame that on Schwartz but if guys getting paid NFL salaries cant tackle then they need another profession, because that is the most basic aspect of their job. We have one proven guy on our D line, that being Hayneworth who has been inconsistant his entire career. KVB obviously had a great year, but Odom hasnt proved anything, and Laboy shows some flashes but he was drafted to be a 3rd down pass rusher, hardly a bastion of talent. So again, where is all this talent you see? Outside of Bulluck, KVB, Haynesworth, and Rookie CBs, I dont see any of this talent you are talking about. The one who has something to prove at this point and time is Reese in my opinion, not Schwartz.

 

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Potentially very talented: Woolfolk, Tank, Lamont, Haynesworth, Odom(second coming of Kearse supposedly), Laboy, Starks, Boiman(we've seen him make plays), Bulluck, Rien Long.

You are helping me prove my point, the coaching staff isn't developing these players but instead exploiting them. Reese can't put these players on the field, Schwartz has to make his players successful by putting them in the right position.

 

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Potentially very talented: Woolfolk, Tank, Lamont, Haynesworth, Odom(second coming of Kearse supposedly), Laboy, Starks, Boiman(we've seen him make plays), Bulluck, Rien Long.

You are helping me prove my point, the coaching staff isn't developing these players but instead exploiting them. Reese can't put these players on the field, Schwartz has to make his players successful by putting them in the right position.

Woolfolk has shown no resemblence of being a first round corner, Reese blew that pick. Tank has had his moments but his health probably held him back a little this year, and his inability to tackle, which is on him, not Schwartz. Lamont was so good that he was cut by Bengals after a year I think. Odom the second coming of kearse? Then why in the hell did he slip to the second round if he was projected to that have much potential? Starks is ok and should get better, keep in mind he was only 20 years old when he came into the league, and probably needs a few years to reach his potential. Boiman is an average LB at best who is nothing more than a backup.

Look at the teams in the playoffs right now, the level of talent on all those teams is far superior to our level of talent, and thats because we havent drafted well lately, and mismanaged the cap so poorly that we turned over almost our entire starting defense in only 2 seasons. The odds of any coach being successful under those circumstances is beyond a longshot.

 

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Potentially very talented: Woolfolk, Tank, Lamont, Haynesworth, Odom(second coming of Kearse supposedly), Laboy, Starks, Boiman(we've seen him make plays), Bulluck, Rien Long.

You are helping me prove my point, the coaching staff isn't developing these players but instead exploiting them. Reese can't put these players on the field, Schwartz has to make his players successful by putting them in the right position.

You don't know jack crap about what the coaching staff is developing. Your full of hot air making up anything you can think of to keep an argument going. If you can' tell me that you expected this team to be competitive at the beginning of the year I'd say your full of $h!t again. You have Rien Long, Boiman, Woolfolk, and LAMONT (horrible!), among others listed to be our so called "potentially very talented players". That's a bunch of crap and you should know better than that. I don't know how you can say that those guys are the talent of this team and expect me to take what you say as serious. You better come up with something better than that.

 

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Apparently you guys are oblivious to what a good coach can do to average/better than average players. Look at the Pats, with all of their injuries this year, they were still competitive.

And yes, I did expect this team to be competitive from start to finish, we always have been, we are now in the same class as Arizona and San Fran who quit after one quarter and lay down. Never in my whole life have I seen the Oiler Organization roll over like they did this year. Common Denomonator = different defensive philosophy and a lack of attitude = losing seasons consecutively.

I guess we'll just have to bring in some already pro-bowl players and DRAFT BETTER to make this DC worth a crap.. Because there is no way we can play hard competitive, fly to the ball defense without pro-bowl players right? you guys are a joke.

 

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Apparently you guys are oblivious to what a good coach can do to average/better than average players. Look at the Pats, with all of their injuries this year, they were still competitive.

And yes, I did expect this team to be competitive from start to finish, we always have been, we are now in the same class as Arizona and San Fran who quit after one quarter and lay down. Never in my whole life have I seen the Oiler Organization roll over like they did this year. Common Denomonator = different defensive philosophy and a lack of attitude = losing seasons consecutively.

I guess we'll just have to bring in some already pro-bowl players and DRAFT BETTER to make this DC worth a crap.. Because there is no way we can play hard competitive, fly to the ball defense without pro-bowl players right? you guys are a joke.

Yeah, its the different defensive philosophy that has put us where we are, thats it. Nevermind that the bears run a base cover 2 and have the top D in the league. Give it up. We are in the boat with SF and AZ because Reese screwed up the cap, there is no getting around that. Apparently your oblivious to the fact that its a GMs job to get quality players in there. Every single team that made the playoffs this year did so with talented players. If you think Lovie Smith or Belicheck would have had this titans team anywhere near the playoffs then your just crazy.

We pick up guys who couldnt even cut it on the Bengals terrible teams and you expect them to be the second coming of Ronnie Lott here, figure that out. We spend a first round pick on a guy who spent most of his college career as a WR and put him at corner, makes sense to me.

 

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Apparently you guys are oblivious to what a good coach can do to average/better than average players. Look at the Pats, with all of their injuries this year, they were still competitive.

And yes, I did expect this team to be competitive from start to finish, we always have been, we are now in the same class as Arizona and San Fran who quit after one quarter and lay down. Never in my whole life have I seen the Oiler Organization roll over like they did this year. Common Denomonator = different defensive philosophy and a lack of attitude = losing seasons consecutively.

I guess we'll just have to bring in some already pro-bowl players and DRAFT BETTER to make this DC worth a crap.. Because there is no way we can play hard competitive, fly to the ball defense without pro-bowl players right? you guys are a joke.

Oh yeah, our defense is no where near as talented as the pats, no where near. And when the pats did have all those injuries they were a .500 team giving up 40 points at home to the colts and chargers, so dont act like they were a good defense when they had all those injuries, they werent.

 

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We pick up guys who couldnt even cut it on the Bengals terrible teams and you expect them to be the second coming of Ronnie Lott here, figure that out.

The Broncos picked up an entire D-line that "didn't cut it on the Browns" and instantly made them much better.

 

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The Broncos picked up an entire D-line that "didn't cut it on the Browns" and instantly made them much better.

Not to mention they have guys like champ bailey, lynch, trevor pryce, DJ williams, and al wilson. With the exception of Bulluck, we nobody on our roster that is at the level of any of those guys.

 

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that's funny, you were probably saying Lynch was washed up a couple of years ago. Hey, DJ Williams is a second year player, he's not supposed to be successful! the opposite corner to Champ is a rookie, whait a minute, that can't be, he can't be successful either. Don't forget about Ian Gold, he's coming off of an ACL, so the jury's still out on him too. Sounds to me like someone knows his personnel and knows how to get the most out of them(underachieving Browns D-Line, turned into excellent players first year with the Broncos) MIRACLE

 

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Apparently you guys are oblivious to what a good coach can do to average/better than average players. Look at the Pats, with all of their injuries this year, they were still competitive.

The Pats lost 6 games this year. Sure they're competitve because they a have better team. Kind of like when we had good players we were a better team. We got rid of 7 starters from last year and replaced them with recent draft picks. If the Pats do that they'll have a down year to.

And yes, I did expect this team to be competitive from start to finish, we always have been, we are now in the same class as Arizona and San Fran who quit after one quarter and lay down.

Sorry, I don't believe you. Every poll that was taken on this board was completly lop-sided towards the Titans having an off, or rebuilding, year. I think your just dilutional.

Never in my whole life have I seen the Oiler Organization roll over like they did this year. Common Denomonator = different defensive philosophy and a lack of attitude = losing seasons consecutively.

Exact same head coach = exact same defensive philosophy + salary cap player releases = bad year = common sense....

I guess we'll just have to bring in some already pro-bowl players and DRAFT BETTER to make this DC worth a crap.. Because there is no way we can play hard competitive, fly to the ball defense without pro-bowl players right? you guys are a joke.

We just have to let our young guys develop. You surely can agree that it takes a couple of years for players to devlop in the NFL. Payton Manning is the best QB in the league and it took him a couple of years. While time will tell whether or not we've had good draft choices, as of late, I think it's safe to say we haven't drafted anyone to the caliber of Manning. Teams can make big improvements in a year and I think the maturity of our team along with a couple of free agents can put this team back to a competitive level.

 

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Not to mention they have guys like champ bailey, lynch, trevor pryce, DJ williams, and al wilson. With the exception of Bulluck, we nobody on our roster that is at the level of any of those guys.

You're missing the point. The point is these guys didn't play well as individuals in Cleveland, but in Denver their game became much better.

 

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You're missing the point. The point is these guys didn't play well as individuals in Cleveland, but in Denver their game became much better.

Your comparing a guy taken as the #1 overall pick who was injured much of his time in cleveland, with a mid round pick that got cut by a worthless bengal team? You think thats a fair assessment. And Warren was the #3 overall pick and was a decent run stopper in cleveland, you surround him with better talent and of course he looks a lot better.

 

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Your comparing a guy taken as the #1 overall pick who was injured much of his time in cleveland, with a mid round pick that got cut by a worthless bengal team? You think thats a fair assessment. And Warren was the #3 overall pick and was a decent run stopper in cleveland, you surround him with better talent and of course he looks a lot better.

That is the usual bases of every argument against Schwartz. You'll have people making comparison's like taking the 2000 team to our team now and they'll act like it was all Williams that took us to the super bowl and that the fact that we were completly stacked on D had nothing to do with it. Fact is, we have the same head coach who impliments the same philosophies as he always has.

 

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Sorry, I don't believe you. Every poll that was taken on this board was completly lop-sided towards the Titans having an off, or rebuilding, year. I think your just dilutional.

I don't think I am being delusional expecting a young team which did endure some salary cap issues to still be competitive on the field. I didn't say I was expecting them to go to the playoffs or even go .500, but I did expect them to play hard and get after it with an infusion of youth on defense. Defense is different, it's all about attitude and running to the ball, we don't have that, and it has nothing to do with talent.

 

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I don't think I am being delusional expecting a young team which did endure some salary cap issues to still be competitive on the field. I didn't say I was expecting them to go to the playoffs or even go .500, but I did expect them to play hard and get after it with an infusion of youth on defense.

I can gaurantee that if we had gone .500, or even 9 - 7, we'd still have people like you complaining about things that are indiferent.

Defense is different, it's all about attitude and running to the ball, we don't have that, and it has nothing to do with talent.

Talent has nothing to do with it?? Please! You don't have stinking clue.
I don't think attitude makes takles. As for Defense is about running the ball, I'm a little confused, but hopefully, our D has a better year running the ball next year.

 

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Tackling is all attitude, anyone whomever played ball will tell you that, the will to hit someone in the mouth is all attitude and take them to the ground is all effort, not talent.

Running to the ball, not running the ball, I think you just skipped over a word.

and if we didn't win the SuperBowl, then I probably would be complaining about something, I'm a coach, if you're not getting better, you are getting worse. Complacency is not a trait of a coach, not a good one hopefully.

 

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is it me or is this arguement never going to end between these two guys :ha:

 

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Oh Well, we'll just have to hope for the best... My opinion is that Schwartz, along with the entire defensive coaching staff, didn't get what they could've out of their players. I feel the same about Chow and the O. Which takes us to Fisher not doing his job. I think we can agree that the team certainly didn't play as well as they should but I think we just have some diferent reasoning behind why we were what we were.

We stunk and it's frustrating... It's easy to point fingers when you stink this bad.