It will be interesting what the Titans think. I do know that Cutler was able to put big time numbers against some very good defenses and when he had a true go to WR he was darn good. Had he played with more talent around him he could have eaily averaged 300 passing per game.
Soxcat, so true. People want to down play Cutler but he played in one of the toughest conferences against some damn good defenses. He had good stats considering what players he had around him. Young or Leinart wouldn't be as good if they played at Vandy IMO
Well Leinart with his NFL OL, WRs, TE and RBs did put up much better stats than Cutler. Leinart threw for 3815 yards last year where Cutler only threw for 3073.
Wait, Cutler's numbers are for 11 games and Leinart's are for 13. So much for a big difference. To even think Cutler couldn't have been as productive at USC as Leinart would be ridiculous considering he was almost as productive at Vandy. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Titans had him rated as high or higher than the other two.
Wait, Cutler's numbers are for 11 games and Leinart's are for 13. So much for a big difference. To even think Cutler couldn't have been as productive at USC as Leinart would be ridiculous considering he was almost as productive at Vandy. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Titans had him rated as high or higher than the other two.
Well there's no convincing either of you guys that Cutler isn't what he's hyped up to be...just like there's no convincing me that he is. I agree to just disagree. Truth be known I don't know that much about him. I knew who he was last season, but I followed Vince Young much more because 1) I'm from Texas 2) I'm a huge Longhorn fan...Biased? Heck yeah!
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As far as Leinart, who could help hearing about him... the publicity he got/gets is unbelievable.
) As far as Leinart, who could help hearing about him... the publicity he got/gets is unbelievable.
You may or may not like Leinhart, but to penalize his career just because he played on a great team is unfair. Just like penalizing Cutler because he plays on a sucky team. Leinhart put up outstanding numbers from day one and only lost 1 game. Sure he had talent around him, but so did Carson Palmer and Peyton Manning, but they are doing fine. I think Leinhart will be a fine QB in the NFL.
Good post..... Guys, the hard and honest truth is...we don't know for sure how any of the big 3 will do. Sure we each have our favorite. We have to leave it in the hands of the "experts" and just hope they make the right choice. Potentially all three have greatness written all over them.....they also have bust written all over them too.
VolnTitan said:
Thats a good point. I see no reason to try to put one guy down just to make another look better when both or all three could be successfull. The issue with comparing these guys is being able to see potential. Certainly Leinart is the most pro-ready of the three but he did play on a great team and he also had great coaching. That gives him a jump start on the other two. For example, if we dissect mechanics and footwork Leinart wins hands down. That isn't to say that a guy like Cutler with the same coaching couldn't be more refined at a later stage of his career. No one would argue that Leinart had top notch coaching in a pro-system. However, when looking at potential can a guy like Cutler learn and develop his mechanics and footwork to go along with his superior arm, something that can't be taught just like speed can't be taught. Young is a good example of being a guy who is a great runner but can he adapt into a more pure passer. He apprears to have a good enough arm.
The point really is we have to be carefull in how much stock we put in college accomplishments, although those do count and look at the material the coaches will have to work with. I'm not on the Cutler bandwagon because I'm a Vandy homer. No way would I want a Vandy QB on the Titans who couldn't get it done. The school makes no difference at all.
I do think the fact that Cutler put up numbers similar to a guy like Leinart on a team like Vandy should speak positively for his pure ability more than the negative of not winning many games. Alot of average college QBs won a bunch on games on great teams. Heck, just give Cutler Bush for a season and that one player would be enough to get Vandy to a bowl game (very rare) but would also balloon Cutler's already decent stats considerably.
VolnTitan said:
The problem is that a lot of fans and the media as well argue that Leinart is better, not because of skill, but because his team won more than Cutlers. With that line of reasoning, the "better teammates" argument is very valid.
Leinhart has proven to be better under preasure than Cutler too. He's played in several very big games and won almost all of them. Yes, he played on a team with a lot of talent but you could say that for every BCS team. Look at Ohio State, Penn State, West Virginia, LSU and on and on.... They're all stocked with good players so I don't think saying that Leinhart was good just because he had good players around him is completly fair. I think all those good players make up a good team not an individual player. To me, it's all about winnig. Leinhart knows how to win. He's used to being a winner. He's used to being the captian of a championship team and you can't measure or put a grade on that. Cutler is pretty good and there's nothing that says he can't come out and tear it up. Same goes for Young... But, if I was the one who's job depended on making a good pick I'd pick the guy that already knows how to win and win on the biggest stage.
Vigsted said:
Decent read on Leinart and significance of his pro-day.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2397632
rcarie said:
and think about this, vince is even better under pressure games and when they went head to head vince had the heigher passer rating
rcarie said:
And this is a prime example of penalizing someone for what team they were on. To me if you judge someone better or worse because of their winning percentage or bowl games then you're judging him based on the team he played for. The nfl is not the nba- I don't think one player can drastically change that much in the nfl. <--- but that is my assumption
Personally, I like Cutler, but I'm not so sold on him that I can positively state he is better than either of the other two. It doesnt bother me at all when someone says ML or VY is better than him. What does bother me is when ppl use arguements like this.
I dont mean that it really upsets me or anything, its just kind of frustrating. If you dont like Cutler or if you like other guys better than him fine; but give me reasoning that doesnt include stats, wins, or bowl games.
If you want to say ML is the smarter QB, he's ran the closest thing to a pro-style offense ,and he is the most accurate and saavy qb on the board then great.
If you want to say VY is supremely atheletic and blows others away because of it, then I get that.
If you even want to say, that you question Cutler's ability to make decisions and his ability to develop that in nfl....cool.
But to me to say VY or ML is better because they won this game or that game or a set of games.... its just doesnt seem to be a very solid argument to me. :winker:
I agree completely.
Cutler is in a peculier situation because most top QBs do also play for fairly successfull teams. Still, Cutler never had a chance to lead his team from behind against ND with the likes of Bush and Co. Can't fault a guy because his team was not good enough to put him in those situations to begin with.
Cutler is in a peculier situation because most top QBs do also play for fairly successfull teams. Still, Cutler never had a chance to lead his team from behind against ND with the likes of Bush and Co. Can't fault a guy because his team was not good enough to put him in those situations to begin with.
Soxcat said:
Soxcat,I think you and I have been on the same side of this for awhile and I've seen you get a lot of crap for it. But the way I see it is there are Vince Young fans, there are ML fans, and there are Cutler fans-and thats all cool. Personally I'm a Titans fan and want them to get whoever is the best qb for the NEW titans and I'm hearing more and more of that sentiment as we get closer to the draft.
I think its an exciting time to be a Titans fan. We are developing a new face, a new style, and a new identity. What will that look like and how will we get it done? I sure as hell don't know. But I'm loving watching it develop. :toast:
this message is to the title of the topic, in words hell no (vince young, or matt leinart)
I you don't judge a player on stats and wins than what do you judge them on?? That's part of it. Like I said, I like Cutler but I like Leinhart better. My reasoning is my reasonin just like you don't really have a legitimit reason for liking Cutler more than the other two. To say that winning doesn't matter is crazy. Leinhart was the best player on the best team in the country for three straight years in row, not to mention, a Heisman Trophy winner to boot. He's pretty damn solid.PragIdealist said:
You could make that arguement for ML very easily.
Sorry, but that's what ends up being the bottom line. There's no question that Cutler would've done fine with a team like Texas or USC but that's all speculation and fact of the matter is that he played at Vandy. Like it or not he'll have to prove himself better than the stigma that comes along with playing at a losing school.
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