Puck said:
What is this bizzaro world logic you people are so fixated on? No one, not me and not you, can CORRECTLY speculate how the careers of these players would be like if they swapped roles. Oh wait, but we do have reality! The fact remains, this is asking who's the better QB is given the realistic circumstances, not "Who's the Better QB If They ___________".
Hell, why don't we start arguing "The Titans win the Super Bowl in '99 if Dyson gets that <yard" or "The Bills would have been in the SB if the MCM wouldn't have happened". Do you see what I'm getting at? You can't provide facts based on pure speculation from stuff you say "coulda woulda shoulda" happens in another scenerio.
Do I think McNair could have had Manning's stats given Mannings circumstances? Of course I think it's possible. But that's not what we're arguing here.
)dg1979us said:
Hell, let's substitute Dwight Freeney, Bob Sanders, and Cato June for some of our defensive starters and start a thread called "Titans > Colts".:brow:
hell, I shouda just left this thread alone
because it's just not that simple to say one is better than the other
if you're gonna base it on stats alone than it's not even an issue
if you're gonna base it on heart and desire and attitude than that too isn't even an issue either
If I had to start all over again
all things being equal
I'd want Steve McNair with me ....... call it crazy
because it's just not that simple to say one is better than the other
if you're gonna base it on stats alone than it's not even an issue
if you're gonna base it on heart and desire and attitude than that too isn't even an issue either
If I had to start all over again
all things being equal
I'd want Steve McNair with me ....... call it crazy
dg1979us said:
I wasn't aware that the point if this thread was who had the better playoff record ... hang on a sec ..... checking MsTitan's post .... nope
This is tough. I am a McNair fan, and love his heart, but if Peyton would be here I think it would have made us a better team. His studying, game planning, everything. If McNair did more of this he would be even better.
RollTide said:
who wins in the playoffs the most?
Colts Defense has also given Manning plenty of chances to win and he hasn't done it. Colts score more then 21 points a game yet they can't do it when it matters. And who leads the offense?
LOL Well whats that old saying... Stats are for losers? Seriously who gives a flip about QB rating, that has never won a game. Yes, Steve's QB rating in the playoffs are nowhere as good as Manning's, yes Manning is the glory boy of fantasy football geeks... but you are not taking into consideration Steve's scrambles or clutch throws on the run... thats why people keep bringing up intangibles, when the game is on the line does Manning make plays? Apparently not. :lol:
Puck said:
If your arguing the McNair is better than Manning then you better use the playoff record or you have absolutely no argument, so yeah genius, it is very relevant to this thread.
Hold the phone Tide. It's not often that I really get you but that game was a great comeback if you count the illegal onside kick. That ball never hit the turf and although interference in that instance may be a silly rule, it is the rule and it hasn't changed. That was total non-call and I believe you know that. Nice try.RollTide said:
That should have been 1st and 10 Tampa Bay, GAME OVER.
I agree more with Kami more than he realizes but it is still my contention that Manning will flake when the pressure is it's most intense.
Take Vince Young for instance in the Rose Bowl and how he did what he had to do when it was all or nothing. He got it done.
That's an example of an intangible.
That's what Manning lacks. Put him in a similar situation like an AFC Championship and he'll throw that ball incomplete.
Yes, I realize Young ran for the TD, but it's a pressure situation none he less.
SEC 330 BIPOLAR said:
The fact it was an illegal onside kick doesnt take away from one of the greatest offensive performances ever in the last 6 minutes of a game.
Some of you seem to have short term memories, and as usual some of you can't freakin' read.
But in reply to the ludicrous idea that Mcnair was somehow just "trent dilfering" the super bowl team of 99, do you not remember that 5 TD passing performance in Jax for the Conf. Championship.
I must have missed the big game that P-Head Manning won like that.
And for the 1 Millionth time, The Music City Miracle was a legal play, ruled legal on the field, further upheld by instant replay and the fault of the Bills Special teamers that day for not having a clue.
(Having practiced the play they were prepared, and prepared teams are lucky teams, Patriots??)
But in reply to the ludicrous idea that Mcnair was somehow just "trent dilfering" the super bowl team of 99, do you not remember that 5 TD passing performance in Jax for the Conf. Championship.
I must have missed the big game that P-Head Manning won like that.
And for the 1 Millionth time, The Music City Miracle was a legal play, ruled legal on the field, further upheld by instant replay and the fault of the Bills Special teamers that day for not having a clue.
(Having practiced the play they were prepared, and prepared teams are lucky teams, Patriots??)
I forgot this bit of scientific evidence...
:coltssuk: :coltssuk: :coltssuk: :coltssuk:
:coltssuk: :coltssuk: :coltssuk: :coltssuk:
I can't believe we are actually still arguing the point of who the better QB is. There may have been some contention back in 2003 but right now, as I stated earlier, there is no coach or GM that wouldn't take Manning hands down over McNair including Reese and Fisher. Anyone who thinks differently is a homer, period.
By the way MadAboutMcNair, no body is saying McNair is as bad as Trent Dilfer but if you are going to put emphasis on a QB being better because they made it to a SB then Dilfer would get the nod because he not only went to a SB but won one. For those with short memories two of the best QBs of all time, Elway and Marino had failures in the playoffs and SB. Football is a team effort and all those SB losses doesn't mean Elway or Marino were bad QBs. When Elway finally had the right combination of talent behind him he did go on to win. Manning may well do the same. Marino never was able to win the big game but he is still one of the best of all time.
By the way MadAboutMcNair, no body is saying McNair is as bad as Trent Dilfer but if you are going to put emphasis on a QB being better because they made it to a SB then Dilfer would get the nod because he not only went to a SB but won one. For those with short memories two of the best QBs of all time, Elway and Marino had failures in the playoffs and SB. Football is a team effort and all those SB losses doesn't mean Elway or Marino were bad QBs. When Elway finally had the right combination of talent behind him he did go on to win. Manning may well do the same. Marino never was able to win the big game but he is still one of the best of all time.
Is it bizzaro world or real world? I agree with Soxcat but at the same time recognize the validity of Mad's argument. Like it or not Peyton ain't clutch and if you include the bogus "leaping" call (FG BLOCK)...it was a remarkable comeback against TB to my chagrin...
Colts suck has nothing to do with this.
Peyton gets help from Zebras.
Colts suck has nothing to do with this.
Peyton gets help from Zebras.
I'd like to have both. I'd start Manning durring the regular season and then bench him in favor of McNair in the playoffs...
Mad about mcnair...
You are the one with the memory problem. Mcnair's 5 TDs came in a regular season game against jacksonville in 1999 not in that afc championship game. He was 14-23 for 112 yards with one pick and one TD in the afc championship game. He also ran for 91 yards which is why he was a good player back then.
I would never say he dilfered his way to the super bowl but i would heartily reject the idea that he took the team on his back as some want to claim.
You are the one with the memory problem. Mcnair's 5 TDs came in a regular season game against jacksonville in 1999 not in that afc championship game. He was 14-23 for 112 yards with one pick and one TD in the afc championship game. He also ran for 91 yards which is why he was a good player back then.
I would never say he dilfered his way to the super bowl but i would heartily reject the idea that he took the team on his back as some want to claim.
the whole point is, is that mcnair over his career, and manning over his whole career, mac has been better! mac is more willing to do whatever it takes and play with reckless abandon if he has to if it means this team going all the way to the big dance, manning, he gets happy feet and gets beat up, them blames other people for his misfortunes!
Starkiller...
I guess you have not read the factual data given to you on this thread. Mcnair has 6 Tds and 9 ints in play off games. It's all fantasy that the guy is a great post game player.
Something interesting to think about starkiller. Since that wonderful day when the titans won the 1999 afc championship with a win over the jags they have a 2-4 playoff record. The only 2 wins being the nedney roughing call do over over the steelers and the ravens game when mcnair threw 3 ints and 500 year old gary anderson had to hit what for him was an extraordinary long FG.
Maybe you should consult the facts before posting.
I guess you have not read the factual data given to you on this thread. Mcnair has 6 Tds and 9 ints in play off games. It's all fantasy that the guy is a great post game player.
Something interesting to think about starkiller. Since that wonderful day when the titans won the 1999 afc championship with a win over the jags they have a 2-4 playoff record. The only 2 wins being the nedney roughing call do over over the steelers and the ravens game when mcnair threw 3 ints and 500 year old gary anderson had to hit what for him was an extraordinary long FG.
Maybe you should consult the facts before posting.
Gunny...
Your posts make no sense. Prior to this year manning has played on teams with horrible defenses. He is the guy who always has to throw for 300 yards to win a game.
You say that steve has won more in the playoffs. Ok but not so much more that it automatically makes him better or even as good. Steve mcnair has won 5 playoff games. 3 of those came in 1999. Hell that was so long ago you were probably still in diapers. In those 3 playoff wins vs buffalo, indy and jacksonville mcnair averaged 100 yards passing a game. Now i'm not saying that to knock him just to factually illustrate that he did not win those games all by himself.
Ok he won those games and played pretty good in a losing effort in the super bowl. But since then what have we done? We have only won 2 playoff games. We had two playoff loses where our offense only scored 10 points. 2000 ravens and 2003 pats. We had a playoff win(ravens 2003) where mcnair threw 3 ints. Come on!
Even if you wanted to argue that mcnair and manning were equals you would have to give a decisive edge to manning simply because he has never missed a game. Another problem with the manning vs mcnair debate is that steve was once a great runner. Now he isn't running hardly at all. Hasn't that fact diminished his value as a qB? :sad2:
Your posts make no sense. Prior to this year manning has played on teams with horrible defenses. He is the guy who always has to throw for 300 yards to win a game.
You say that steve has won more in the playoffs. Ok but not so much more that it automatically makes him better or even as good. Steve mcnair has won 5 playoff games. 3 of those came in 1999. Hell that was so long ago you were probably still in diapers. In those 3 playoff wins vs buffalo, indy and jacksonville mcnair averaged 100 yards passing a game. Now i'm not saying that to knock him just to factually illustrate that he did not win those games all by himself.
Ok he won those games and played pretty good in a losing effort in the super bowl. But since then what have we done? We have only won 2 playoff games. We had two playoff loses where our offense only scored 10 points. 2000 ravens and 2003 pats. We had a playoff win(ravens 2003) where mcnair threw 3 ints. Come on!
Even if you wanted to argue that mcnair and manning were equals you would have to give a decisive edge to manning simply because he has never missed a game. Another problem with the manning vs mcnair debate is that steve was once a great runner. Now he isn't running hardly at all. Hasn't that fact diminished his value as a qB? :sad2:
Fine, I'll take Manning in the regular season and any other decent QB in the playoffs. Manning is a choker. He has never won the big game. On any level (well, maybe pee-wee).
He has proven it in the NFL playoffs over and over. He proved it at UT, over and over. And even in high school (I just read this fact), he lost just 5 games in his career, yet 3 of them came in the playoffs and he never won a state championship.
He has proven it in the NFL playoffs over and over. He proved it at UT, over and over. And even in high school (I just read this fact), he lost just 5 games in his career, yet 3 of them came in the playoffs and he never won a state championship.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
