We had issues at CB with Adoree being injured (only started 2 games). Brown also got hurt (our best cover LB) and missed 1/2 the season. We picked up Desmond King to have a decent NB but he only played 9 games. Fulton had a great opportunity but we had no pre-season essentially and he got hurt (played in 6 games). So yea, we had issues at CB, NB and cover LB. So yes, the lack of a pass rush was amplified.
Now if we don't have terrible luck again with injury we have a top 10 talent, 1st round CB, Fulton, coming back, a rookie NB who should be play soon (smart and has experience at the position). You can argue that Jenkins is worse than Butler but he is a vet and serviceable if .... we can have a decent pass rush. Now if Dupree and Autry can't improve the pass rush we will still suffer some on the back end again. So the pass rush, or lack of it, wasn't all the problem but critical to the success of the defense.
Yes Fulton is actually a starting caliber talent at CB (projected to be a 1st round talent) so best case scenario could eventually play opposite of Farley. So no, we don't need to dump more resources into a CB. Even if we don't get Julio another option might be to find another guy like Reynolds to play one of the 3 WR spots. I'd trade Evans for a guy like that since we drafted Rice and have Long.
The talent is there. My concern is experience.
So you aren't concerned about the lack of talent and experience at WR? We could start Borders at one of the CB spots and with any kind of pass rush be better than last year. Hey, we could bring back Joseph, lots of experience. He started some last year.
If AJ goes down we have nothing at WR.
If AJ goes down we have nothing at WR.
Oh, let me add an inexperienced CB is a lot better than an inexperienced WR. The NFL transition is not as tough. You point them to a guy and tell them to cover the guy. They might get beat occasionally but that is better than a guy at WR who is lost and gets your QB killed because he can't get open or ran the wrong route..
QUALITY experience. Borders has experience but lacks talent. Joseph was/is just horrible.
The drop off is significant but, at full strength, WR has a lot more experience than CB. You're basically starting two rookies at CB IF Farley is healthy.
We lose any starter at any position we suffer. I don’t understand the argument. Of course we’re in bad shape if AJ goes down. Tanny goes down same thing. BDH? Experience is important, but talent overcomes that. Farley gets out and balls down, what difference would it make if less talented experience cannot shut down as he did (assuming he does that)? Fact is, AJ is starting
Our corners are disgusting but so is our receivers minus AJ. 1>0 so I guess I agree
So Farley, Fulton, Jenkins are "disgusting"?
IMO this is typical homerism in reverse.
IMO this is typical homerism in reverse.
I wouldn't call either CBs or WRs disgusting..WRs after AJ are unproven (rookies) or wait and see (Reynolds, Westbrook-Ikline) CBs, I like Fulton and Jenkins with hope Farley is good to go
Farley is going to be amazing!
Either way Julio is a real guy, who is really being traded, who really is a need position (Falcons can't even sign their draft picks). I haven't seen any quality CBs who are real guys, really being traded by team desperate for CAP space. So the argument is a real possibility being argued along side a phantom non existent one.
On top of that would be even consider going after Julio if our 1st round pick was a WR rather than our first WR was picked in the 4th round? So this whole reasoning is lunacy. Even if some how it made sense to trade for a CB who would that player be? Like we just go down to Walmart and pick players off a shelf.
On top of that would be even consider going after Julio if our 1st round pick was a WR rather than our first WR was picked in the 4th round? So this whole reasoning is lunacy. Even if some how it made sense to trade for a CB who would that player be? Like we just go down to Walmart and pick players off a shelf.
Considering Nelson and Breeland are still available in the FA I would be a little pissed to trade for a CB. Our pass rusher depth is worse than our DB depth.
Exactly, but apparently there is a CB out there so good he can be a significant upgrade to those guys and the team he is on is willing to part with him because they have a surplus (teams always have great CBs they are willing to part with). We have no idea who that is but we should make the trade.
For what it is worth Borders had a better rating by PFF than Nelson or Breeland.
We also signed Kevin Johnson who is supposed to be decent in the slot and a good STs guy so he might make the roster.
Bottom line is we have adequate depth on the outside unless you totally ignore Fulton and Farley actually being able to play (also have Jenkins and Borders) and outside of Fulton maybe playing NB we have the best slot CB in the draft and Johnson.
There are some quality pass rushers still available but someone like Ingram will come at a price. Wouldn't mind brining him in (won't cost us a draft pick) if the price could be within reason. His projected value is $11.5 and he is 32 years old. Maybe see if he is willing to play for a little less as a situational pass rusher. Considering his age and desire to be on a SB contender it might be doable on a 2 year deal.
For what it is worth Borders had a better rating by PFF than Nelson or Breeland.
We also signed Kevin Johnson who is supposed to be decent in the slot and a good STs guy so he might make the roster.
Bottom line is we have adequate depth on the outside unless you totally ignore Fulton and Farley actually being able to play (also have Jenkins and Borders) and outside of Fulton maybe playing NB we have the best slot CB in the draft and Johnson.
There are some quality pass rushers still available but someone like Ingram will come at a price. Wouldn't mind brining him in (won't cost us a draft pick) if the price could be within reason. His projected value is $11.5 and he is 32 years old. Maybe see if he is willing to play for a little less as a situational pass rusher. Considering his age and desire to be on a SB contender it might be doable on a 2 year deal.
Just because YOU don't know of a team willing to trade a CB for the pick/money the Falcons will want for Julio doesn't mean squat. King was traded to the Titans just last season without all the hoopla this Julio trade is getting.
King played in 40% of the snaps last season at nickel. That means that it's very likely the Titans will in that formation the same amount this season. Right now, two of those three players are likely rookies (since Fulton didn't play much last season, I consider him a rookie this first half of this season) with the other being a guy who hasn't been on the field since '19 coming off two back surgeries.
The guys you mention as experienced depth are no more than that because they lack talent. Joseph started last season with a ton of experience and diminished skills and look how that worked out.
If we want to see the Titans defense be better this season, they obviously need more pressure along with having CBs on the field with talent AND experience.
Obviously, if a CB (or a WR) becomes available and the price and compensation are reasonable JRob should consider it. Saying we need to trade for a CB instead of Julio is non-sense. Again, this is about an unknown being compared to an actual guy on the trading block by a team that is desperate to unload CAP space ata clear position of need.
The other part of this is this insane perspective is Fulton, Farley and Molden will all suck or be crippled when teams play rookie and 2nd year CBs all the time. Adoree Jackson played 16 games as a rookie. Fulton was a 2nd round pick who could have potentially gone as early as the 1st round and Farley is possibly a generational talent. But we can't count on either of them? Molden is a son of a former NFL CB who is extraordinarily smart and instinctive and ideal as a NB. Not sure where this paranoia comes from but you have been touting this non-sense every year for over a decade.
Again, if an opportunity to get a talented experienced player at CB becomes available, or if one gets cut, we should consider it. No one is saying otherwise. But the same goes for a number of other positions. We picked an OT in the 2nd round. Should we be looking to trade for a guy with experience and talent or just go with what we have? Stop talking like you just fell off a turnip truck and apply some wisdom here. The combination of talent and experience is not going to be readily available at CB or many other positions. Again, this isn't Walmart.
The other part of this is this insane perspective is Fulton, Farley and Molden will all suck or be crippled when teams play rookie and 2nd year CBs all the time. Adoree Jackson played 16 games as a rookie. Fulton was a 2nd round pick who could have potentially gone as early as the 1st round and Farley is possibly a generational talent. But we can't count on either of them? Molden is a son of a former NFL CB who is extraordinarily smart and instinctive and ideal as a NB. Not sure where this paranoia comes from but you have been touting this non-sense every year for over a decade.
Again, if an opportunity to get a talented experienced player at CB becomes available, or if one gets cut, we should consider it. No one is saying otherwise. But the same goes for a number of other positions. We picked an OT in the 2nd round. Should we be looking to trade for a guy with experience and talent or just go with what we have? Stop talking like you just fell off a turnip truck and apply some wisdom here. The combination of talent and experience is not going to be readily available at CB or many other positions. Again, this isn't Walmart.
And, again, you don't know there isn't a team willing to give up a solid CB for what Julio would cost the Titans.
Really? Then I guess you won't have any trouble finding an example.
That's all I have been saying from the start -- a quality, starting CB with experience is more important to the Titans than a 32-year old Julio coming off a major injury. If you don't agree with that, so be it.
All this other BS is you putting words in my mouth. Here's my exact words from the original post:
That's why, if I'm JRob, I'm looking for help here. Maybe that comes in the form of a CB being released next week but I wouldn't be surprised to see, if the Titans were more willing to make a trade if they can find a team willing to deal an experienced CB.
I've never said a starting-caliber CB was available but that doesn't mean the need for one doesn't exist. For the pick/money the rumors state it'll take to get Julio, I would prefer it be used for a position I feel is a bigger need.
It's really not hard to comprehend.
If we trade for anything it needs to be a WR or a TE. Between Fulton, Farley, Borders, Jenkins, Molden, Kevin Johnson, Chris Jackson, and even Dane Cruishank playing some nickel, I think our secondary is in better shape overall this season than last. Obviously Farley and Molden need to turn out to be good players, but I don't see why they won't.
We have 2 tight ends and one of them played slot reciever most the time last year and the other one was basically a blocker. We also ran more 3TE sets than any team in the league. Tight end is a much greater need that WR and CB unless we plan on changing our offense completely and not running 3 TE sets this year. If we plan on playing Firk In the slot(where he thrived), then TE is easily the biggest need. if we plan on sticking Firk on the line and letting him be true #1 TE then Slot WR/WR2 is easily our greatest need.
Not Corner... Try to atleast have some faith in our rookies.
We have 2 tight ends and one of them played slot reciever most the time last year and the other one was basically a blocker. We also ran more 3TE sets than any team in the league. Tight end is a much greater need that WR and CB unless we plan on changing our offense completely and not running 3 TE sets this year. If we plan on playing Firk In the slot(where he thrived), then TE is easily the biggest need. if we plan on sticking Firk on the line and letting him be true #1 TE then Slot WR/WR2 is easily our greatest need.
Not Corner... Try to atleast have some faith in our rookies.
I agree TE is a bigger need than WR if the offense is to remain the same.
There you go again having zero clue.
In fact I really liked Jonnu but he was far less important of a loss considering his average blocking ability and decent but not great production (Firkser had as much playing far less snaps). Not like we are losing Kelsey level play there. We don't have three legit starting WRs to put out there right now that we know of. Interesting. Getting senile?
Look, putting Farley or Fulton out there, or even Molden on defense, is far less risk than having to play a 4th round pick at WR considering the WR is often by far the more difficult one to transition. Not only that but that 2nd and 3rd guy might need to know two positions so they can play slot.
It is also interesting that I pointed out Adoree basically started from week one as a rookie ( a year we lost both starting CBs to free agency like this year) and I remember Finnegan, a 7th round pick getting plenty of playing time his rookie year and eventually becoming a starter on the outside. But hey, Farley and Fulton must be mentally slower than those guys? It is like logic has no place in these discussions? Yea, but we got King half way through last year, see that proves I'm right..... And hell no I don't want to use any draft capital to get a JAG CB in (basically King was not anything special) and prefer to let the young guys play. First of all they are just as good and can get better. 2nd, our luck with these throw aways is not good (where is King now if that was such a great move).
What we do need, especially if we do not get Julio, is a decent vet WR who can help until Dez gets ready. Not to mention we signed Reynolds for only one year. Maybe Batson, Hollister, Lipscomb or someone else can step up. Have you looked at the guys behind AJ and Reynolds?
In fact I really liked Jonnu but he was far less important of a loss considering his average blocking ability and decent but not great production (Firkser had as much playing far less snaps). Not like we are losing Kelsey level play there. We don't have three legit starting WRs to put out there right now that we know of. Interesting. Getting senile?
Look, putting Farley or Fulton out there, or even Molden on defense, is far less risk than having to play a 4th round pick at WR considering the WR is often by far the more difficult one to transition. Not only that but that 2nd and 3rd guy might need to know two positions so they can play slot.
It is also interesting that I pointed out Adoree basically started from week one as a rookie ( a year we lost both starting CBs to free agency like this year) and I remember Finnegan, a 7th round pick getting plenty of playing time his rookie year and eventually becoming a starter on the outside. But hey, Farley and Fulton must be mentally slower than those guys? It is like logic has no place in these discussions? Yea, but we got King half way through last year, see that proves I'm right..... And hell no I don't want to use any draft capital to get a JAG CB in (basically King was not anything special) and prefer to let the young guys play. First of all they are just as good and can get better. 2nd, our luck with these throw aways is not good (where is King now if that was such a great move).
What we do need, especially if we do not get Julio, is a decent vet WR who can help until Dez gets ready. Not to mention we signed Reynolds for only one year. Maybe Batson, Hollister, Lipscomb or someone else can step up. Have you looked at the guys behind AJ and Reynolds?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
